# Why can't Yoda use proper grammar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 4, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454 "2011-08-04T13:12:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/41 "2011-08-05T03:17:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **Bosstone** , if you’re still bored, it would be interesting to see another breakdown of Yoda’s speech patterns, from before he lets Luke know who he really is. Hey, why not. I’m pulling from Youtube clips, too lazy to go get the DVD and queue it up, so I may be missing a few lines. I’m also totally half-assing this. I wish I’d put in more than a couple years of linguistics, I might have actually learned something. It’s amazing I have a degree in it. :smack: Line-by-line analyses in spoiler boxes due to length: Before Luke knows who Yoda is: “Away put your weapon.” This is a VO command, but it’s unusual in that the phrasal verb “put away” is reversed. I think we can safely say there is no way this is correct by known rules of English (open to correction), though it is fully understandable. “I mean you no harm.” Basic SVO. “I am wondering, why are you here?” Again, basic SVO, though phrased a little more awkwardly than a native speaker would say. “Found someone you have, I would say.” Yoda Rule OSV. “Help you I can, yes.” Yoda Rule OSV (sort of; it’s really VOSmodal, but if you treat the modal as the sentence’s verb it’s OSV. I’m not writing a paper here.) “Wars not make one great.” This is SVO, but it’s clearly fractured, missing a ‘do’. “How you get so big eating food of this kind?” Again, SVO but missing a ‘do’. “You cannot get your ship out?” SVO. “Mine, or I will help you not.” SVO, archaic construction. “My home this is.” Yoda Rule OSV. “Stay and help you I will.” Yoda Rule OSV. “You seek Yoda.” SVO. “Take you to him, I will.” Yoda Rule OSV. “But now, we must eat.” SVO. “Patience. For the Jedi it is time to eat as well.” SVO, probably qualifies as archaic due to the prepositional phrase being first. “Not far, Yoda not far.” SVO, leaving out the ‘is’. “Soon, you will be with him.” SVO. “Why wish you become Jedi?” VSO (guessing; it’s a question, but I’m not sure what the corresponding statement would be). “Father. Powerful Jedi was he.” OVS, though not uncommon in archaic English.So far, we have: Standard SVO = 6 Fractured/Archaic/Unusual SVO = 6 Yoda Rule OSV = 5 Other = 2 I also left out a whole lot of comical sounds and random chattering. It is pretty clear Yoda was playing up backwoods native here, playing up the unusual sentence structure. Straight SVO is in evidence, but it’s in the minority. After Yoda reveals himself: “I cannot teach him.” SVO. “The boy has no patience.” SVO. “Much anger in him, like his father.” Ehhhhhhhh I’m gonna score it SVO, though he left out the ‘There is.’ English is flexible with some word omission anyway. “He is not ready.” SVO. “Ready are you?” Yoda Rule OSV (it’s a question, the words are rearranged properly). “What know you ready?” _Very_ archaic, but I think it’s SVO. “For 800 years have I trained Jedi.” SVO, archaic due to again putting the prepositional phrase first. “My own council will I keep on who is to be trained.” Little green bastard’s getting complex now. “My own council will I keep” is OSV, though it’s not _Yoda Rule_ OSV; if it were, it would be “My own council I will keep” or “Keep my own council I will.” The actual line is archaic English. “A Jedi must have the deepest commitment, the most serious mind.” SVO. “This one a long time have I watched.” Archaic OSV. “All his life has he looked away to the future, to the horizon.” Archaic OSV. “Never his mind on where he was, what he was doing.” …uhhhhh…VSO? “Adventure. Excitement. A Jedi craves not these things.” Archaic SVO. “You are reckless.” SVO. “He is too old. Yes, too old to begin the training.” SVO. “Will he finish what he begins?” SVO. “You will be. You will be.” SV. 😃Total: SVO = 9 Archaic SVO = 3 Yoda Rule OSV = 1 Archaic OSV = 3 VSO? = 1 That is a remarkable difference on first glance, and there’s no doubt Yoda is choosing to speak more clearly, but it’s actually not a really big difference. He went from 1/3 basic SVO and 2/3 basic and unusual SVO to 1/2 SVO and 3/4 basic and unusual SVO. If I add in the tally from the scene I analyzed earlier, it becomes even more one-sided in SVO’s favor. It’s pretty apparent that while some of his more memorable lines are the Yoda Rule OSV, he’s not limited to that by any means and has a generally good grasp on standard English. I’d say what I said earlier holds up: he learned English (or Basic in the Star Wars verse) a _long_ time ago, so his sentence structure will sound a little outdated. He can shift it as he desires, of course, just like I have no problem using double modals when I want to emulate a random Southern accent. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/42 "2011-08-05T03:31:22Z")
Hey, neat. Thanks! Now get me a jack and Coke. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/43 "2011-08-05T03:36:59Z")
I love models with a southern accent. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/44 "2011-08-05T03:40:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hey, neat. Thanks! > > Now get me a jack and Coke. Like hell. I’m getting it for myself because I just realized I spent an hour and a half on that bunch of pointless trivia. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/45 "2011-08-05T04:27:57Z")
Wait, let me try… “Now a jack and Coke get me, enh?” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/46 "2011-08-05T05:07:07Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Hey, why not. I’m pulling from Youtube clips, too lazy to go get the DVD and queue it up, so I may be missing a few lines. > > I’m also totally half-assing this. I wish I’d put in more than a couple years of linguistics, I might have actually learned something. It’s amazing I have a degree in it. :smack: > > \ > > After Yoda reveals himself: > > [spoiler]\>SNIP\> > “My own \*\*council \*\*will I keep on who is to be trained.” Little green bastard’s getting complex now. “My own **council** will I keep” is OSV, though it’s not _Yoda Rule_ OSV; if it were, it would be “My own \*\*council \*\*I will keep” or “Keep my own **council** I will.” The actual line is archaic English. > > \ > [/spoiler] Ahem. couns **e** l That is all. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/47 "2011-08-05T05:10:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Yoda also likes to fuck with people’s heads. He likes to pretend to be smaller and weaker than he really is. Note, for example, that cane he’s always carrying around. He clearly doesn’t need it, as his fight with Dooku amply demonstrates. It’s a prop, to make him look old and feeble, and trick people into underestimating him. Ah. So he’s the Columbo of the Jedi knights. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/48 "2011-08-05T05:30:51Z")
Funny that its the leader of the _light_ side of the Force that uses deception so often. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/49 "2011-08-05T05:32:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ahem. > > couns **e** l > > That is all. Dammit! I even thought about which one to use! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/50 "2011-08-05T16:08:32Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Maybe Yoda is using proper grammar…from a certain point of view. What you did there, I see. > [@Bosstone](#): > > “Size matters not.” Incomplete, but this is one of those lines that gets trotted out as evidence of Yoda’s weird speech. It’s standard SVO (technically SV), but it’s archaic. Modern English speakers would just say “Size doesn’t matter.” Neither is wrong. Here’s the trick: we feel Yoda talks “funny” not just because of the OSV (which stands out) but also the archaic structures that don’t match conventional form. While they are technically correct, they _feel_ wrong because that’s not how we currently talk. So they add to the air that Yoda doesn’t speak “right”. > [@Bosstone](#): > > “Away put your weapon.” This is a VO command, but it’s unusual in that the phrasal verb “put away” is reversed. I think we can safely say there is no way this is correct by known rules of English (open to correction), though it is fully understandable. > > “Found someone you have, I would say.” Yoda Rule OSV. > “Help you I can, yes.” Yoda Rule OSV (sort of; it’s really VOSmodal, but if you treat the modal as the sentence’s verb it’s OSV. I’m not writing a paper here.) > “Wars not make one great.” This is SVO, but it’s clearly fractured, missing a ‘do’. > “How you get so big eating food of this kind?” Again, SVO but missing a ‘do’. > > “Mine, or I will help you not.” SVO, archaic construction. > > “Stay and help you I will.” Yoda Rule OSV. > > “Take you to him, I will.” Yoda Rule OSV. > > “For 800 years have I trained Jedi.” SVO, archaic due to again putting the prepositional phrase first. > “My own council will I keep on who is to be trained.” Little green bastard’s getting complex now. “My own council will I keep” is OSV, though it’s not _Yoda Rule_ OSV; if it were, it would be “My own council I will keep” or “Keep my own council I will.” The actual line is archaic English. > > “This one a long time have I watched.” Archaic OSV. I have extracted these lines to make a further observation. These lines split the verb - the helping verbs and adverbs are not linked with the primary verb. In some cases, part of the verb is being used as part of the object. He is also putting prepositional phrases first and objects first for emphasis, which isn’t that awkward - it is fairly conventional. For example, “When 900 years old you become, look this good you will not.” (Okay, that’s from Jedi, but still.) A more conventional statement would be “When you become 900 years old, you will not look this good.” But the archaic word order works for the second part primarily because it emphasizes the “not” at the end. It’s practically the 80s-ism of “notting” the end of sentence to reverse it. “… look this good you will – NOT!” 😉 > [@](#): > > “Patience. For the Jedi it is time to eat as well.” SVO, probably qualifies as archaic due to the prepositional phrase being first. Prepositional phrase first is perfectly conventional here. “For the Jedi” instead of “For you” is the “odd” bit. > [@](#): > > “Why wish you become Jedi?” VSO (guessing; it’s a question, but I’m not sure what the corresponding statement would be). The problem here is that he has mangled the infinitive. There should be a “to” in front of become. > [@](#): > > “What know you ready?” _Very_ archaic, but I think it’s SVO. A modern question would include the preposition “about”, and the helper verb “do”, and probably “being”. “What do you know about being ready?” > [@Miller](#): > > Yoda also likes to fuck with people’s heads. He likes to pretend to be smaller and weaker than he really is. Note, for example, that cane he’s always carrying around. He clearly doesn’t need it, as his fight with Dooku amply demonstrates. It’s a prop, to make him look old and feeble, and trick people into underestimating him. A different interpretation, and probably the intended one, is that he is old and feeble, but has the ability to channel the Force to overcome that feebleness. It’s just it takes effort, so is tiring. So he does it when required (a lightsaber fight) at the cost of being more tired afterwards. Whereas when it’s not necessary, he expends as little energy as possible and uses a cane. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/51 "2011-08-05T16:57:27Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Here’s the trick: we feel Yoda talks “funny” not just because of the OSV (which stands out) but also the archaic structures that don’t match conventional form. While they are technically correct, they _feel_ wrong because that’s not how we currently talk. So they add to the air that Yoda doesn’t speak “right”. Oh, absolutely. What I wanted to show with the analysis isn’t just that Yoda talks more normally than people remember (for a given value of normal, anyway), but when he doesn’t talk normally he’s not always using what I’ve been calling the Yoda Rule. His speech patterns carry a wide variety of interesting structures. My beef is that the prequels dumb this down. I looked over some lines from Attack of the Clones, and while he does occasionally use standard SVO, he either uses SVO or the Yoda Rule. That’s it. And unlike ESB where it’s more standard/archaic than Yoda Rule, off the cuff AotC looks like it’s 50% Yoda Rule, if not more. It’s like they were working off a set of parameters rather than actually trying to make a living character. “Senator Amidala, your tragedy on the landing platform, terrible. Seeing you alive brings warm feelings to my heart.” “Until caught this killer is, our judgment she must respect.” “Do not assume anything Obi-Wan. Clear your mind must be if you are to discover the real villains behind this plot.” “Around the survivors a perimeter create.” “Concentrate all your fire on the nearest starship.” “Only a Dark Lord of the Sith knows of our weakness. If informed the senate is, multiply our adversaries will.” “To the forward command center take me.” “Powerful you have become Dooku, the dark side I sense in you.” And on and on. What was an interesting, funny, wise character got reduced to a caricature. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/52 "2011-08-05T17:04:23Z")
> [@Labdad](#): > > Slight hijack - I heard on the radio yesterday you can now get a GPS for your car with Yoda’s voice giving directions! (“In 300 feet, left you will turn.”) > > If that’s not enough, you can also have Darth Vader on your GPS. (I command you to turn left!") > > eta: [found the story!](http://www.npr.org/2011/08/03/138962405/garmin-gps-adds-star-wars-character-voices) You have failed me for the last time. At the next legal u-turn, turn around. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/53 "2011-08-05T20:24:53Z")
**Bosstone** , I agree with your analysis. In the ~20 years between Jedi and the start of the prequels, there as a lot of time for Yodaisms to soak into the collective conscious. When Lucas went back to the well, he\* apparently didn’t go back to Yoda, he went to the collective consciousness of what “Yoda” is. Ergo, he made a caricature. I can’t say I didn’t enjoy the prequels while watching them, but they were overall a disappointment due explicitly to hamhandedness like this. * * * \*Whoever did the actual dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/54 "2011-08-05T22:01:03Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > **Bosstone** , I agree with your analysis. In the ~20 years between Jedi and the start of the prequels, there as a lot of time for Yodaisms to soak into the collective conscious. When Lucas went back to the well, he\* apparently didn’t go back to Yoda, he went to the collective consciousness of what “Yoda” is. Ergo, he made a caricature. > > I can’t say I didn’t enjoy the prequels while watching them, but they were overall a disappointment due explicitly to hamhandedness like this. > > * * * > > \*Whoever did the actual dialogue. [fanwank] What it means is Yoda’s grammar _improved_ from episode 1-3 to what we hear in eps.4-6.[/fanwank] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/55 "2011-08-05T22:57:30Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > I thought he German was. > > (Isn’t there a line from Sherlock Holmes about how only the Germans “treat their verbs so discourteously”?) I think it’s from _A Scandal in Bohemia_. From _A Scandal in Bohemia_ I think it is. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/56 "2011-08-06T06:22:23Z")
OK that’s all interesting. I especially applaud all the transcript grammar analysis. Kudos to you. But what I want to know, is, has anyone else of Yoda’s species spoken in canon? I know there were others in the prequels, but I don’t remember if they spoke. But I haven’t seen the Clone Wars cartoon. What’s the scoop… I mean… straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/57 "2011-08-06T08:26:50Z")
There’s a comic about Yaddle, the other whatever-Yoda-is on the Jedi Council. I can’t remember how she talked in it, though - it wasn’t a very good comic overall. ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c77e96/32.png) [@Clark\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_K)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/58 "2011-08-07T05:40:53Z")
Some bright graduate student is going to scoop up all this research and insightful analysis and turn it into a thesis. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/59 "2011-08-07T14:56:13Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Second language English is. 900 years old he is! (And his own counsel will he keep on Jedi who is to be!) You’d think after a few hundred years of hanging around the Republic he’d kinda get the knack of proper “Galactic Standard” grammar. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Saxon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f17d59/32.png) [@Frank\_Saxon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Saxon)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454/60 "2011-08-17T04:43:06Z")
Yoda suffers from what is known as “The Schwarzenegger Syndrome”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-yoda-use-proper-grammar/591454.md?page=4)