# Why can't you control your damn tumors? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 16, 2004, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126 "2004-12-16T12:25:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/61 "2004-12-17T20:42:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > In retrospect, I would ask her for clarification. This is, for me, the most important point. If someone says, “Haha, last night I barbecued my neighbor’s kitten and served it to him with a fine Chianti, and IT WAS DELICIOUS!” I’d **still** ask them for clarification before pitting them. It’s far too easy to misconstrue attempts at humor as something serious, especially on the Internet, where a lack of body language is combined with a surfeit of sarcasm and snark. I wish everyone would take this lesson to heart. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/62 "2004-12-17T21:21:12Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Not knowing your life’s journey, and not being privvy to your subjective reference frame (I am privvy only to my own), I don’t know whether my explanation will satisfy you, Oy. So I ask that if I leave you feeling blank and wondering what-the-hell, that you just accept that you’ve been answered — even though it doesn’t click for you. And remember that I’m speaking only for myself and not the 7 others. > > I saw my father die of his fourth heart attack when I was eleven years old. I saw my mother die of lung cancer. I saw my brother (my good brother) die of colon cancer. My grandson (just over a year old) died of brain cancer. (The anniversary of that death was yesterday.) My sister and my brother (my evil brother) both have had multiple heart attacks, and in my brother’s case, quadruple by-pass surgery. I tell you this much to contextual my reference frame for you — that is, I am intimately familiar with hospitals and loved ones in them. > > Remember also that I knew nothing of Twickster or her “clique”, as she put it. All I knew was what I saw, and what I saw was that a friend dying of cancer was, again in her words, “less than understanding” about her preference. Lot’s of images and experiences came flooding back to me, one of which was the blood that gushed, exorcist style, from my grandson’s stomach and out his mouth an hour or so before his death. I read her post several times in an attempt to find something that might indicate she’d made it all up. > > I understand that you would take the side of your friend, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with that. But we would all do well to understand that people have richly different life experiences, and a man who Pits your friend is not necessarily your enemy. In retrospect, I would ask her for clarification. But that moment has passed. Meanwhile, I hope I’ve clarified the matter for you. **Liberal** , I never thought of you as my enemy for this. And I certainly couldn’t know your experiences, for which I offer you heartfelt sympathy. What continues to bother me, not only about the initial pitting, but the others chiming in, is that everyone seemed to be responding as if **Twickster** had entirely abandoned her friend in favor of a silly TV show, whereas in reality, she was talking about a single evening, and a situation in which, however disappointedly, she had in fact sacrificed her own desires to those of her friend. I’d love to know how many of those who jumped on the bandwagon would really live up to their own apparent standards of friendship, visiting evey night without exception, regardless of the conflicts or inconvenience it would cause. **Liberal** , I recognize the experiences you bring to this situation as exceptional. But that’s exactly what they are - exceptional. It’s really not fair of you to project your experience on to another’s situation, and one bearing so little relation to your own tragedies. **Twickster** didn’t owe you or anyone else any clarification; she was expressing disappointment and dismay in missing something important to her in order to visit a friend in the hospital - there is _nothing_ for her to apologize for or even clarify. If she wanted to express dismay, in what _possible_ way did that have an impact on _anyone_, including her sick friend? And if you really did read that post over repeatedly, how did you get to blood gushing from the mouth of her friend/victim from there? I really am sorry that you’ve been through what you’ve been through, but it’s really not typical of people’s experiences and shouldn’t be used as a standard of judgment, you know? It’s not fair of you to project your well-earned hyper-sensitivity onto others. I’ve met **Twickster** exactly once in person, know nothing of her “clique”, and have just run across her in a few threads. She is a pleasant acquaintance rather than a close friend whom I am defending. I would have reacted this way had the original subject been any poster on this board. My indignation here has been in the wild leap that so many of you seemed to take from thinking of _possibly_ missing a single evening of visiting (and actually deciding against it) to apparent total and permanent disregard of her friend in favor of the crass and shallow pursuit of reality TV. Do you chimers-in actually think a situation through and consider what you’re saying before you decide to join in (effectively) calling someone as a shit-head? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/63 "2004-12-17T23:10:37Z")
I honestly get your point, Oy. It’s pretty much the same thing you keep saying. In your opinion, I’ve dragged Twickster, a dear sweet person, through Hell’s own mud over what was nothing more than a joke. Unfortunately, you’re not getting my point — but we can just leave it at that. We all have our reference frames which bind our vision to our experience. All we can really see in life is ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/64 "2004-12-17T23:43:54Z")
Yeah, but when your own experience distorts what you’re seeing, there’s a problem. I repeat – my friend isn’t dying; he had surgery, which went very well. I never said he was dying. Y’all decided he was dying and piled on me accordingly. I don’t mind accepting responsibility for misinterpreting what I actually wrote – but you were completely making up what you thought I was saying. He had surgery. We discussed when I would go see him after the surgery. This was to be a “hanging out and keeping him company” visit, not a pilgrimage to his deathbed. I’m now getting more pissed off about this, not less. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2004, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/65 "2004-12-17T23:51:53Z")
As I said, all we really see in life is ourselves. I’ve already apologized for the misunderstanding. Don’t be angry; it hurts only you. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/66 "2004-12-18T00:00:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > As I said, all we really see in life is ourselves. I’ve already apologized for the misunderstanding. Don’t be angry; it hurts only you. Yes, but in your solipsistic snit, you dragged me into the Pit and called me an asshole. Oh, I get it – that means that _you’re_ an asshole. Gotcha. ---
**Author:** ![legion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/838e76/32.png) [@legion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/67 "2004-12-18T00:27:23Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > If a friend of mine was battling cancer, I’d be there where they wanted, when they wanted, no questions asked. > > Nothing could possibly be more important, at least for me. Bollocks. I accept that you might, as I would, miss your favourite TV show, but would your miss your childs wedding? Graduation? Would you lose you job? More importantly, would your friend want you to? ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/68 "2004-12-18T00:57:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > I saw my father die of his fourth heart attack when I was eleven years old. I saw my mother die of lung cancer. I saw my brother (my good brother) die of colon cancer. My grandson (just over a year old) died of brain cancer. (The anniversary of that death was yesterday.) My sister and my brother (my evil brother) both have had multiple heart attacks, and in my brother’s case, quadruple by-pass surgery. I tell you this much to contextual my reference frame for you — that is, I am intimately familiar with hospitals and loved ones in them. Here’s my question for you, **Lib** –does the person who is unfailingly loyal, who never even considers the possibility of acting selfishly really a better person than the person who considers the possibility of acting selfishly, recognizes that it is within their power to make that choice, and then choses the selfless path? Can we condemn people for being tempted, for looking that temptation square in the fac ead rejecting it? Because even if you take **twickster’s** OP as written (as oppossed to as intended), that’s all I see. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/69 "2004-12-18T11:23:37Z")
> [@Manda JO](#): > > Here’s my question for you, **Lib** –does the person who is unfailingly loyal, who never even considers the possibility of acting selfishly really a better person than the person who considers the possibility of acting selfishly, recognizes that it is within their power to make that choice, and then choses the selfless path? Greetings, Manda JO. It’s good to hear from you. As I see it, there is no point in trying to be anything other than selfish — we are, after all, our life experiences. When we look out onto the world, ourselves is what we see. Selflessness is the feeblest of aspirations, since there can be no such thing. There is hardly a greater windmill at which to tilt than a metaphysical impossibility. But I understand what you’re getting at. It is morally superior to contemplate evil and enact goodness than to contemplate goodness and enact evil. > [@](#): > > Can we condemn people for being tempted, for looking that temptation square in the fac ead rejecting it? Because even if you take twickster’s OP as written (as oppossed to as intended), that’s all I see. You and I both have now described what we saw. A man will always follow what he treasures — his heart will drive him there with a relentless sense of purpose. Every act that we do is selfish, born of a decision made inside a subjective reference frame. It is therefore impossible for one man to condemn another since there exists for them no accessibility relation between their frames. A man can condone or condemn only himself. Every pitting is a condemnation, whether vicious or mild, or what we see in our own lives. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/70 "2004-12-18T11:43:00Z")
You know, **Liberal** , until you had my sympathy. But that is one of the biggest steaming piles of self-justifying, hi-falutin’ crap I’ve ever seen in my life. Empathy is possible and a worthy goal to pursue. If you consider solipsism and selfishness the unavoidable norm, I suggest you refrain from pitting people for their selfishness in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/71 "2004-12-18T11:45:28Z")
er, that would be “until \*now \* you had my sympathy” ! :o ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/72 "2004-12-18T12:56:48Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > You know, **Liberal** , until you had my sympathy. But that is one of the biggest steaming piles of self-justifying, hi-falutin’ crap I’ve ever seen in my life. Well, thank you. That rather illustrates my point. You’re calling it the way you see it, which in fact is the only way you can. > [@](#): > > Empathy is possible and a worthy goal to pursue. Did you mean to say that empathy by _some_ people for _some_ people is a worthy goal to pursue, or are you admitting that you have abandoned the worthy goal in my case? > [@](#): > > If you consider solipsism and selfishness the unavoidable norm, I suggest you refrain from pitting people for their selfishness in the future. Selfishness is quite obviously unavoidable, but you don’t seem to know what solipsism ([belief that only oneself exists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism)) is. I said that all reference frames — including my own — are subjective, not that my reference frame is the only one that exists. Finally, your roly poly tides of sympathy are of no concern to me, but I didn’t pit Twickster for her selfishness. I would explain it again, but expending the energy wouldn’t make any sense. You cannot possibly be less stupid now than you were a few minutes ago. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/73 "2004-12-18T13:33:26Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > Why did the eight of you find it so offensive that \*\*Twickster \*\* might: > > a) Prefer her visit to her friend not be scheduled for an evening when she had something else she wanted to do, deplorable as that thing might be? > > or > > b) Not visit her friend every single evening? > > or > > c) admit she has enough of a life that considerations other than her friend might enter into her decision as to when to visit that friend? > > or > > d) ? > I’m still trying to understand what this was all about. She wasn’t permanently abandoning her friend for the sake of _The Apprentice_. In fact, she had reluctantly decided to forgo her show in favor of visiting, and that’s what she was moaning about. But even if she had said “No, I can’t visit you that night, although I can the night before or the night after or both,” why was that such a terrible thing? Seriously, I’m trying to understand this. Well, having already apologized for my behavior ☹ , I suppose I should step in and explain myself a bit. What made it pitworthy for me was this: Posted (jokingly)by **Twickster** > [@](#): > > when he mentioned Thursday, and I said “But that’s the three-hour Apprentice finale,” his “well, that’s okay then” was less than fully … understanding. Seemed the person was a tad upset. Having just been through surgery, I figured that “upset” wasn’t something the person should be. It’s one thing to have plans, made in advance. It’s another to say “but a tv show is on.” Not knowing anything about twickster, her friend, etc. I regretfully joined in the pile on. ☹ I would like to ask for some sympathy. I mean, _The Apprentice_? It’s offensive that anyone would even watch this show. How could I keep a proper frame of mind when I find out a member of this venerable board was keeping such programs on the air? 😛 Could be worse though. Coulda been “The Simple Life.” This is the last time that I buy into anything that I heard from the **Liberal** media. 😃 Thank yew! Thank yew! I’ll be here all week. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2004, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/74 "2004-12-18T14:52:23Z")
> [@Harborwolf](#): > > I would like to ask for some sympathy. I mean, _The Apprentice_? It’s offensive that anyone would even watch this show. How could I keep a proper frame of mind when I find out a member of this venerable board was keeping such programs on the air? 😛 Could be worse though. Coulda been “The Simple Life.” If it makes you feel better, I’ve never even seen a minute of “The Simple Life.” They may be low, but I do have some standards. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/75 "2004-12-19T00:06:20Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > If it makes you feel better, I’ve never even seen a minute of “The Simple Life.” They may be low, but I do have some standards. 😉 They can’t be that high. You’re watching “The Lawrence Welk Show”. 😃 Robin ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/76 "2004-12-19T00:12:55Z")
That’s the last secret I tell you! (Ooh, they’ve segued from Bread to Three Dog Night!) ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/77 "2004-12-19T02:40:26Z")
Lawrence Welk? That’s it. The pittings deserved. My grandparents used to use that show to punish me. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/78 "2004-12-19T02:41:39Z")
Damn it! Wrong user name. Should be under mine. Gonna slink off into my idiot hole now :o ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/79 "2004-12-19T08:00:19Z")
**twickster** and I are TV buddies-- we do the SDMB FantasyTeeVee league together, we talk about shows, and I think she’s a great person with a good sense of humor. I knew she was only joking about not visiting her friend because of a TV show. She probably thought it was all the same to him if she came on a Wednesday or a Thursday, but he wanted her to go on Thursday and got annoyed when she said she couldn’t. Ultimately, she was going to go but was bitching, tongue in cheek, about missing the beginning of the show. There was no way she was going to dis her friend if he really wanted her to be there that night. That was clear to me from the get-go. Next, let’s address the “fuck yous” **twickster** got about watching the Apprentice. It’s trash. We know it’s trash. We find it fun to watch, the way some people like watching soap operas, other people enjoy a greasy Big Mac everyone now and again, etc. We know we’re slumming in the dregs of TV viewage, but it’s just goofy fun. I know that, twickster knows that-- she’s not a moron-- but we like it. Let he who is without any guilty pleasures cast the first stone. Ultimately, this Pitting was ridiculous. **twicks** , throw in a few smilies next time for the humor-impaired to avoid this nonsense in the future, 'K? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126/80 "2004-12-19T10:47:36Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > I knew she was only joking about not visiting her friend because of a TV show. Well, aren’t you special. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cant-you-control-your-damn-tumors/280126.md?page=5)