# Why capitalize "Black"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2023, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455 "2023-01-01T09:50:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/281 "2023-01-03T22:24:28Z")
tick, bingo, full house–adding “mixed metaphors” to the things he’s good at. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/282 "2023-01-03T22:31:31Z")
Do you not know what a full-house is in Bingo? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/283 "2023-01-03T22:33:07Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Well your honest response could have been, “ah yes, I see you do indeed post in bad faith”. No, the honest response would literally have been what I said. If I had said what you did, it wouldn’t make any sense, and it would not be honest. Which, I suppose makes sense, from you. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Or you could ignore that, double down and do a joke about shit…let’s find out viewers! While you may impress yourself in that you are able to read the future by reading the next line, you are also wrong that it is a joke. It is a metaphor, in that you are not literally shitting on a real carpet, so far as we can literally see or smell, but there is nothing funny about it. You really do make the environment unpleasant around you, and you do it with the intent of making the environment around you unpleasant. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > ah, that’s dissappointing. Ah, a joke about being disappointed with your setup about asking about the future. Not only is it not amusing, it’s also quite dishonest on your part. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/284 "2023-01-03T23:06:43Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’ll continue to do people of all ethnicities the courtesy talking _with_ them and judging their thoughts, experiences and ideas on their own merits. This is a fine idea. I greatly endorse you try it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is "why capitalize “Black?” So, for instance, i might write: _Young Black men in America are at much greater risk of violence from cops at a routine traffic stop than the rest of us are._ This is objectively true. It says a lot about what is wrong with America, vis-a-vis racism. Yes, it lumps a lot of people together, but in a way that’s meaningful and relevant. Even actionable. It does not detract from the individualism of each young Black men that i make this claim. And there’s no fucking way I’m going to stop and ask every Black person whether or not to capitalize the word, or even every young Black man in America, before i write out that sentence. As i said above, i capitalize it because a Black colleague said she preferred the capital letter 20 years ago, and not one Black person has objected to that choice in the time since. The usage has clearly gained traction, too. I honestly have no idea what point you think you are making. That i shouldn’t notice that Black men are sometimes killed by cops in situations where I’m likely to get a warning, or even an apology? (I’m a middle aged white women who looks like she has enough money. Cops are nice to me.) That’s harmful, because denying the existence of racism in situations like this helps maintain it. Something else? Do you just like to be contrary? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/285 "2023-01-04T01:37:17Z")
There seems to be a lot of (deliberate?) confusion between various posters on whether the question before us is to capitalize or not capitalize in one-on-one conversations, or to do so when writing for a generalized audience. A generalized audience which might, or might not, contain any self-described members of the group named. I wonder why this confusion exists? Perhaps folk’s with eyes screwed shut can’t see? Naah, couldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/286 "2023-01-04T02:17:30Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Do you not know what a full-house is in Bingo? Actually, the intricacies of regulation Bingo is an area where you know more than me, and I’ll concede your expertise in that area. I know how to listen to what folks say, and how to conduct a little bit of research even when they don’t give me much to go on, and most importantly, how to change my mind given new information. Your metaphor isn’t mixed, although I suspect it’s going to appeal mostly to the Metamucil set. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/287 "2023-01-04T02:30:44Z")
[aside]From my days of serving drinks and playing piano at the parish bingo games like thirty years ago, I believe we call it a “Coverall” here in the States, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the nomenclature varies.[/aside] But, yeah, Novelty, you’re not coming across well here. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/288 "2023-01-04T03:59:44Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > in one-on-one conversations Most one-on-one conversations are oral, not written, and capitalization is moot. I mean, I’m also not in the business of telling other people how they should identify, so even if I’m somehow writing to a Black person about some Black topic, if I’m using those words I’m probably writing about groups of generic people, not specifically about the person I am writing to. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/289 "2023-01-04T07:03:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, the honest response would literally have been what I said. If I had said what you did, it wouldn’t make any sense, and it would not be honest. you think that there is is no good faith posting in any of those other threads? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/290 "2023-01-04T07:10:13Z")
Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And an apology for something completely different than what you said you’d apologize for. 😶 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/291 "2023-01-04T07:26:15Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > This is a fine idea. I greatly endorse you try it. But it has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which is "why capitalize “Black?” you yourself have just said. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > i capitalize it because a Black colleague said she preferred the capital letter 20 years ago, and not one Black person has objected to that choice in the time since. So clearly the preferences of your colleagues plays a part in your decision to do so (As I suggested it should). Did that happen by magic or by talking with an individual? If a colleague suggested you didn’t use that form for them would you ignore them or do as they say? You’ve basically given a perfect example of what you claim to not understand about my position. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I honestly have no idea what point you think you are making Exactly what I said at the top of the thread. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > it is far from a universal practice and something that needs to be negotiated in good faith on a case-by-case basis. and in direct response to you… > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > In answer to the question “Why capitalise Black” the answer is sometimes you should and sometimes you shouldn’t and there is no perfect rule that will apply to all and be acceptable to all. The examples you give in this post seem a reasonable usage, I also said, again very early in this thread. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Those to whom it does apply, and who want to be described in that way then of course capitalise away. So what is it exactly you are objecting to? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/292 "2023-01-04T07:35:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I know how to listen to what folks say, and how to conduct a little bit of research even when they don’t give me much to go on, and most importantly, how to change my mind given new information. The implication being that I’ve expressed an opinion in this thread on which I’ve been given _new_ information and so _should_ change my mind? Do tell. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/293 "2023-01-04T07:44:14Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And an apology for something completely different than what you said you’d apologize for. If you mistake further questions and challenges for accusations of error then I suspect you go through life demanding all sorts of unwarranted apologies. The world doesn’t owe you blind deference and silence and an open message board is the last place to expect it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/294 "2023-01-04T09:22:51Z")
Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. I’m hearing an English Ben Stein in my head… 🥱 ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/295 "2023-01-04T09:44:30Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Seeing as you think certain people should shut up rather than speak, I can see how that would be annoying for you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/296 "2023-01-04T09:46:58Z")
Damn straight. Especially when they’re boring liars. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/297 "2023-01-04T10:42:04Z")
boring is a qualitative assessment and you are free to have that opinion. “Liar” is an accusation that you would need to back up and is in fact a complete fabrication on your part seeing as there is not a single lie in anything I’ve written. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/298 "2023-01-04T10:51:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > there is not a single lie in anything I’ve written. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Show me where I’ve done that and I’ll apologise immediately Liar. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/299 "2023-01-04T11:02:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Liar. That is exactly what _you_ are doing. The challenge still stands. Show me where I told you your experiences around race were wrong and I’ll apologise for that. You can’t show it because it didn’t happen. Asking further questions is _not_ an accusation of error. It is quite illuminating that you think it is. It ties in perfectly with your apparent wish to have people shut up. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2023, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455/300 "2023-01-04T11:13:51Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Show me where I told you your experiences around race were wrong Did that. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I’ll apologise for that. Didn’t. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Asking further questions is _not_ an accusation of error. Like _fuck_ it isn’t. When it’s loaded questions like “Would they appreciate you doing so?”, I see you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-capitalize-black/977455.md?page=16)