# Why China is kicking our ass **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 24, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314 "2025-01-24T00:39:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/1 "2025-01-24T00:39:06Z")
Sunday evening, I placed an order with jlcpcb for 5 prototype PCBs. The price for these boards? $2 I chose the “expensive” DHL delivery service, and paid the total cost of $21. The boards arrived today - 4 day after I ordered them from around the world. The same day that I ordered the boards, I also ordered some parts (in-stock) from DigiKey, in Minnesota, and paid for FedEx ground. Those parts have not arrived yet… ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/2 "2025-01-24T00:44:32Z")
It’s tough to make a living building PCBs in the U.S. due to environmental regulations. Does China have the equivalent of an EPA? If not, that’s your answer. (To be clear, though, I _am_ in favor of our environmental laws.) ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/3 "2025-01-24T00:52:09Z")
I’m sure that plays a part, but the key thing is: they know how to make a product, and they do it very, very efficiently. I’m sure cheap labor plays a roll, too, but there is clearly a lot of software that has been developed to automate the task (floorplanning and drilling/routing, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/4 "2025-01-24T01:09:20Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > and paid for FedEx ground. I see your issue… ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/5 "2025-01-24T01:15:13Z")
Probably, but has DigiKey indicated they’ve shipped the goods yet? IOW, do we know if the hang-up is at DigiKey or at FedEx? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/6 "2025-01-24T02:12:46Z")
Tracking says it’s out for delivery, but it’s after 7pm here, so I’m not sanguine about the chances. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/7 "2025-01-24T02:34:33Z")
I buy a disturbing amount of stuff from Temu shipped from China. It leaves their warehouse in Shenzen or wherever first thing in the China morning, gets on a jet to the USA, then once it gets here the next day it gets handed off to one or another courier outfit to get to me. Which can take 5 days from distant LA or 1 day from local Miami. ISTM the hard part is getting it through US customs and the US distribution network. Measured from “moment of order” to “moment jet lands on US soil”, they kick butt. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/8 "2025-01-24T10:23:21Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I chose the “expensive” DHL delivery service, and paid the total cost of $21. I just want to note that DHL is a German company, not Chinese. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/9 "2025-01-24T13:46:41Z")
A similar thing: I bought an item off ebay, from Michigan. I watched the tracking: Michigan to Denver to Los Angeles (? but, OK, it’s a central hub, it’ll get on a truck to Arizona). NO, It takes a nice little side vacation to Hawaii! How does that happen? I give them credit, though, the automatic tracking updates let me know the location of my package 4000 miles out of the way. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/10 "2025-01-24T15:18:53Z")
Yeah, I know. The point is: The company received my order on Sunday night, manufactured my custom boards by the next day, arranged shipping, and got them here in 4 days. DigiKey had only to pick some parts out of a warehouse, and send them across the US to me, and still was slower. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/11 "2025-01-24T15:46:13Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > or at FedEx Around these parts, Fedex Ground = a couple of weeks. Things hang out in Troutdale, OR for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/12 "2025-01-24T15:50:17Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > It’s tough to make a living building PCBs in the U.S. due to environmental regulations I don’t know what the PCBs are in the OP, but I’m quite sure it’s not Polychlorinated biphenyls ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/13 "2025-01-24T15:57:53Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > Around these parts, Fedex Ground = a couple of weeks. Things hang out in Troutdale, OR for a very long time. One of our Dopers works for UPS in one of their sorting centers. The frequent tales of operational chaos, chronically broken equipment, and major understaffing are eye-opening. And misdirected or damaged packages. Lots and lots of misdirection and damage. As a separate matter, all the express companies want to deliberately nerf their routine ground service to ensure that next-day or two-day service (usually by air) can command a high premium. So having a few warehouses that are backlogged by a couple weeks where packages just sit in queue until they reach the front of the line then finally move along to the next stop is not necessarily bad for their overall business. Just bad for their customers. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/14 "2025-01-24T15:58:14Z")
Printed Circuit Boards. Their manufacture is a potentially polluting process, but there are many US houses that make them. But, extremely expensive, and slow. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/15 "2025-01-24T16:00:46Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > As a separate matter, all the express companies want to deliberately nerf their routine ground service to ensure that next-day or two-day service UPS Ground is great. Since the pandemic, Fedex Ground has been broken. My wife works for a manufacturing company and they make sure to avoid Fedex Ground for their parts & materials delivery because of the black hole that surrounds Troutdale. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/16 "2025-01-24T16:09:27Z")
That sounds like a regional problem. But since it’s your (and wife’s) region, it _is_ your problem. But it’s also one that FedEx senior management at HQ has evidently failed to manage, whether by design or default. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/17 "2025-01-24T16:23:39Z")
Not sure if this is inappropriate for MPSIMS, but IS China “kicking our ass”? I really don’t know. I tend to be pretty ignorant about global economics, but - say - 10-20 years ago everything I heard was that China was going to surpass the US on so many fronts. But more recently - say w/in the past 5 - I thought I heard about all manner of internal difficulties and a bleak future China was facing. So which is it? Or are we just talking about how quickly one can expect delivery of some sorts of tech products? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/18 "2025-01-24T16:49:04Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Printed Circuit Boards. Yea, PCB = Printed Circuit Board. The military, for whatever reason, likes to use the term Printed Wiring Board (PWB). ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/19 "2025-01-24T16:54:47Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Their manufacture is a potentially polluting process, The traditional process involved etching away copper, which necessitates nasty chemicals. I’m not sure how they’re made nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2025, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314/20 "2025-01-24T20:13:19Z")
I think China has a brighter future than the US. They have the drive and ambition that the US used to have, before everyone decided they didn’t want to work for a living, just be an “influencer.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-china-is-kicking-our-ass/1013314.md?page=2)