# Why cops and their unions don't care about the public **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876 "2017-08-05T23:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/261 "2017-08-10T23:24:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Not their job” is a ridiculous and bullshit concern. Of course raiding the right house is their job! The right house is the one on the warrant, as far as the cops performing the raid are concerned. That the address is a legitimate one to be searched has already been confirmed by a judge. > [@](#): > > Reasonable questions! They were hyperbolic, intentionally ridiculous questions, as all those things should already have been checked before the raid team even knows about the warrant. The warrant will have been signed off by a judge, making it legitimate. I don’t want cops who should be out there stopping crime having to triple check things that have already been double checked, and neither do most reasonable people. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2017, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/262 "2017-08-10T23:46:30Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > The right house is the one on the warrant, as far as the cops performing the raid are concerned. That the address is a legitimate one to be searched has already been confirmed by a judge. But you’ve said that we should try to minimize mistakes. Adding additional verifications is a proven method (in quality control for all sorts of industries and operations) of reducing mistakes. > [@](#): > > They were hyperbolic, intentionally ridiculous questions, as all those things should already have been checked before the raid team even knows about the warrant. The warrant will have been signed off by a judge, making it legitimate. > > I don’t want cops who should be out there stopping crime having to triple check things that have already been double checked, and neither do most reasonable people. How do you know they’ve been double-checked? Mistakes are already happening. Are you against the concept of ever adding additional checks to try and reduce mistakes, or just in this case? Do you think it’s wrong that in the Navy we mandate double and even sometimes triple checking for every single operation (aside from the very rare casualties that require immediate action), whether it’s routine or not, that might put someone at risk? We’ve had reasonable discussions before. What I’m offering really isn’t extreme, or drastic, and really is at the very least reasonable to consider. It doesn’t put anyone at risk. It could really reduce the chance of mistakes. Every time a court clerk or judge makes a mistake, if the cops double checked them, maybe some of the mistakes would be caught before someone got hurt. Why is that beyond the pale for you? If you’re not willing to consider even reasonable, non-violent, non-extreme suggestions, then I don’t think you’re actually interested in a real exchange of ideas, which is a shame. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/263 "2017-08-11T01:53:18Z")
If cops are given a warrant to search 123 Fakename Street, it’s their job to search that address, not to start a new investigation into who lives there and what they might have done. Just as if in your navy days you were ordered to sail to somewhere near North Korea, you made sure to check that you were doing so in the correct manner, you didn’t start debating with your superior officers whether they were a real threat or not. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/264 "2017-08-11T03:52:58Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > You also be on the ground on your stomach and get shot. That has already happened to someone. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/265 "2017-08-11T03:57:49Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If cops are given a warrant to search 123 Fakename Street, it’s their job to search that address, not to start a new investigation into who lives there and what they might have done. The feds disagree with you. It IS their job to confirm it is the right house. Dumb fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/266 "2017-08-11T11:33:55Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The feds disagree with you. It IS their job to confirm it is the right house. > > Dumb fuck. At the point they’re standing outside the door about to break it in? I fucking doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/267 "2017-08-11T11:47:08Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > If cops are given a warrant to search 123 Fakename Street, it’s their job to search that address, not to start a new investigation into who lives there and what they might have done. They can check the name of the suspect to the name of the resident in public records. No big deal. Isn’t this an entirely reasonable suggestion? It would take very little effort. > [@](#): > > Just as if in your navy days you were ordered to sail to somewhere near North Korea, you made sure to check that you were doing so in the correct manner, you didn’t start debating with your superior officers whether they were a real threat or not. We’d make sure the order came through the proper channels. If they gave us the order to launch a missile at London, you can be damn sure we’d double check and make sure this was the intended order. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/268 "2017-08-11T12:21:45Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > I’d still take not having my son injured and disfigured permanently. $1,000,000 will go to medical bills, a portion will go to lawyers, the kid won’t wind up with much. The deputy who lied and screwed things up did no jail time and resigned. And you think shooting and killing the cops will result in a _better_ outcome for you and your son? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/269 "2017-08-11T12:29:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In **Steophan** -land, criminals are incapable of getting their own police uniforms. Unfortunately, in the real world, they can and sometimes do. Well, I suppose we may as well just preemptively open fire on anyone in a police uniform, right? After all, they _could_ be criminals just waiting to rob us, rape us, and kill us, and not necessarily in that order, and we’d better be safe than sorry, right? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/270 "2017-08-11T12:49:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And you think shooting and killing the cops will result in a _better_ outcome for you and your son? I never said opening fire on them is better. If the police do more due diligence prior to initiating a no-knock then it should never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Hocus\_Pocus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/41988e/32.png) [@Hocus\_Pocus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hocus_Pocus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/271 "2017-08-11T12:56:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They can check the name of the suspect to the name of the resident in public records. That’ll work…Because wanted people only stay at places where their name is on the lease/mortgage. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/272 "2017-08-11T12:57:34Z")
> [@Hocus\_Pocus](#): > > That’ll work…Because wanted people only stay at places where their name is on the lease/mortgage. > > :rolleyes: Well it wouldn’t be 100% effective, so there’s no point in trying, right? Might as well give up trying to improve if we can’t make it perfect. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/273 "2017-08-11T13:12:08Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Well, I suppose we may as well just preemptively open fire on anyone in a police uniform, right? After all, they _could_ be criminals just waiting to rob us, rape us, and kill us, and not necessarily in that order, and we’d better be safe than sorry, right? That’d be stupid. But maybe we should pre-emptively open fire on anyone who breaks your door down in the middle of the night. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/274 "2017-08-11T13:37:48Z")
We are seriously debating whether or not law enforcement should verify that they have the correct address before requesting and executing a non-knock warrant? You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/275 "2017-08-11T14:52:25Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Of course they don’t. There have been many cases where parents don’t know their kids is a drug dealer, or spouses don’t know their partner is a fraudster or child pornography user. The only way you could be correct is if you live alone, no one else has ever lived in your house, and no one could have lied when giving your name or address to the police. Don’t have any family, don’t have any friends, don’t associate with anyone. Also, don’t somehow ever allow anyone to LIE about it including LYING “INFORMANTS” OR THE COPS WHO MAKE FALSE STATEMENTS TO GET WARRANTS OR DON’T CHECK TO SEE IF THEY ARE CORRECT. Is THAT your response? What a fucking asshole. You ARE a fucking troll. And a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/276 "2017-08-11T14:55:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > And you think shooting and killing the cops will result in a _better_ outcome for you and your son? The best outcome would have been for it to not have happened. But “not their job”, or “comply and take it” is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/277 "2017-08-11T14:57:28Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > We are seriously debating whether or not law enforcement should verify that they have the correct address before requesting and executing a non-knock warrant? > > You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/278 "2017-08-11T16:23:40Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > We are seriously debating whether or not law enforcement should verify that they have the correct address before requesting and executing a non-knock warrant? > > You’ve got to be fucking kidding me. No, we’re debating whether or not law enforcement should perform a raid on an address they have a warrant for, as it might have been issued in error. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/279 "2017-08-11T16:27:47Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Don’t have any family, don’t have any friends, don’t associate with anyone. Also, don’t somehow ever allow anyone to LIE about it including LYING “INFORMANTS” OR THE COPS WHO MAKE FALSE STATEMENTS TO GET WARRANTS OR DON’T CHECK TO SEE IF THEY ARE CORRECT. > > Is THAT your response? No, my response is that UNLESS you are in that situation, you can’t reasonably believe that it’s impossible for the police to have a warrant to search your house or arrest you. > [@](#): > > What a fucking asshole. > > You ARE a fucking troll. And a fucking idiot. Try reading for comprehension. What the FUCK is wrong with you that you think it’s reasonable for people to shoot cops if they don’t think they themselves are a criminal? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/280 "2017-08-11T16:29:09Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The best outcome would have been for it to not have happened. But “not their job”, or “comply and take it” is bullshit. No, it’s not bullshit, it’s the best way to proceed to keep _everybody_, cops, suspects and innocent bystanders, safe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876.md?page=15)