# Why cops and their unions don't care about the public **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 5, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876 "2017-08-05T23:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/101 "2017-08-08T01:55:40Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Once again, when you get such a basic fact wrong, it renders your opinion worthless. That you can’t conceive of anyone who isn’t actually a cop suggesting that perhaps you shouldn’t shoot them on sight demonstrates your utter stupidity. Keep saying it. It doesnt change the horrific reality that is going on in the U.S. Cops are things and goons. If they are not doing the actual crime, then they are conspirators in covering it up. If the websites added in the OT and the free Whoppers they get in uniform, the pay would be there. Keep your head in the sand and avoid the rath of Johnny Law. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/102 "2017-08-08T03:07:23Z")
> **[In Blue, But Not Blue-Collar](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2015/04/06/in-blue-but-not-blue-collar#.ZdA5tjh3z)** > > Why police are better paid than most workers. > **[The Cop Beats The Professor--(When It Comes To A Career)](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/adventures-in-old-age/201004/the-cop-beats-the-professor-when-it-comes-to-a-career?amp=)** > > Skip college. You will earn more as a cop. > **[Police Officer Appalled By How Much Money He Makes, Thinks Government...](https://www.businessinsider.com/police-officer-responds-to-six-figure-federal-salary-gravy-train-post-2009-12)** > **[$204,000 Per Year: Is This Retired Cop's Pension Too High?](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/-204-000-per-year-is-this-retired-cops-pension-too-high/260629/)** > > A retired police chief in Stockton, California is being cited as a symbol of public-employee excess. > **[Cops Retiring in Their 40s While Pension Systems Break Cities’ Backs](https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/21822)** > > Retirees collecting pension checks while working in second career > **[NY State Cops and Firefighters Get $100K Pensions](https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/06/25/NY-State-Cops-and-Firefighters-Get-100-K-Pensions?amp)** > > Life and retirement are good when you fight crime and fire for the Empire State. > **[Chicago Police and Fire Pensions: FAIL - Taxpayers United Of America](https://www.taxpayersunitedofamerica.org/chicago-police-and-fire-pensions-fail-2/)** > > CHICAGO – Chicagoans aren’t getting their money’s worth for their police and fire departments, according to Illinois’s largest taxpayer organization, Taxpayers United of America (TUA). “Our study of Chicago police and firefighter pensions shows that... > **[Judge orders end to police pension-padding tactic used by suburban officers](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-countryside-police-pension-ruling-met-20170331-story.html)** > > A Cook County judge has dealt a death blow to a waning police pay tactic in suburban Countryside that critics call a flagrant example of pension padding. > **[These benefits scammers were caught thanks to dumb Facebook posts](https://nypost.com/2017/04/04/benefits-scammers-keep-outing-themselves-on-facebook/)** > > These idiots should serve as a warning to other would-be fraudsters: If you’re scamming the system, don’t post the proof on Facebook and other social media. Scores of former city cops and firefight… Lots of hilarious hijinks regarding pay and pension. I really like the last one. Real classy guys. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/103 "2017-08-08T03:58:26Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Most cops are making over $100k with overtime and moonlighting to watch Denny’s while in uniform at $60/hr. They are well paid. The system doesn’t work as a defined benefit with all risk on the general public. I fucking care as I have to pay for these people to be retired longer than they work. Speaking as the son of a firefighter (and he devoted 26 years of his life to saving others), I can confidently say that he never made $100k in ANY year. In fact, he normally had a second job before he retired, and also had one to supplement his pension. When he died, he was involved in a class-action suit against the city of Louisville over unpaid vacation/overtime funds due him and other civil servants. When that suit was settled (approximately 14 years after it was filed, if I remember correctly), his share of the settlement was just over $100k. And that was for over a decade of being denied money he had legitimately earned, and the interest that accrued during that span. This is kind of a sticky issue with me. Firefighters and police don’t get paid _nearly_ enough for all the crap they have to put up with. Especially when uninformed, whiny little bitches like yourself don’t think they deserve compensation for risking their lives to save yours. So, in the words of our dear **Clothahump** , fuck off, OP. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/104 "2017-08-08T04:06:08Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Speaking as the son of a firefighter (and he devoted 26 years of his life to saving others), I can confidently say that he never made $100k in ANY year. In fact, he normally had a second job before he retired, and also had one to supplement his pension. When he died, he was involved in a class-action suit against the city of Louisville over unpaid vacation/overtime funds due him and other civil servants. When that suit was settled (approximately 14 years after it was filed, if I remember correctly), his share of the settlement was just over $100k. And that was for over a decade of being denied money he had legitimately earned, and the interest that accrued during that span. > > This is kind of a sticky issue with me. Firefighters and police don’t get paid _nearly_ enough for all the crap they have to put up with. Especially when uninformed, whiny little bitches like yourself don’t think they deserve compensation for risking their lives to save yours. > > So, in the words of our dear **Clothahump** , fuck off, OP. Thank your dad for his service and for not being one of the many who raped and pilaged the system to their benefit. Fuck you Cardinal bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/105 "2017-08-08T04:18:15Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Thank your dad for his service and for not being one of the many who raped and pilaged the system to their benefit. Fuck you Cardinal bitch. I was born in Indiana, so that’s “fuck you, _Hoosier_ bitch” to you ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/106 "2017-08-08T04:39:21Z")
Savage, brutal, barbaric acts. Yes we should completely trust them. > **[Black Lives Upended by Policing: The Raw Videos Sparking Outrage (Published...](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/08/19/us/police-videos-race.html)** > > This is a collection of the viral footage that has prompted a national conversation about race and policing. [https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/opinion/the-police-killed-my-unarmed-son-in-2012-im-still-waiting-for-justice.html](https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/02/02/opinion/the-police-killed-my-unarmed-son-in-2012-im-still-waiting-for-justice.html)? > **[Study Supports Suspicion That Police Are More Likely to Use Force on Blacks...](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/us/study-supports-suspicion-that-police-use-of-force-is-more-likely-for-blacks.html)** > > A report by the Center for Policing Equity comes at a time of increased tension over shooting episodes. > **[Blacks Are Killed By Police At A Higher Rate In South Carolina And The U.S.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/blacks-are-killed-at-a-higher-rate-in-south-carolina-and-the-u-s/)** > > On Tuesday, South Carolina police officer Michael Slager was charged with murder in the shooting death of Walter L. Scott, after video evidence clearly showed S… > **[The NYPD Officers Who See Racial Bias in the NYPD](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/01/the-nypd-officers-who-see-racial-bias-in-the-nypd/384106/)** > > Defenders of the police department too often ignore credible evidence that its treatment of minorities leaves much room for improvement. > **[What the Data Really Says About Police and Racial Bias](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/07/data-police-racial-bias)** > > Eighteen academic studies, legal rulings, and media investigations shed light on the issue roiling America. > **[Off duty, black cops in New York feel threat from fellow police](https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0K11EV20141223)** > > From the dingy donut shops of Manhattan to the cloistered police watering holes in Brooklyn, a number of black NYPD officers say they have experienced the same racial profiling that cost Eric Garner his life. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/107 "2017-08-08T04:42:20Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I was born in Indiana, so that’s “fuck you, _Hoosier_ bitch” to you Thank you for the extra info. I have no problem paying the good ones. It is the pieces of shit that don’t deserve to be outside of a prison that fuck it up for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/108 "2017-08-08T05:16:41Z")
But that metric can be applied to _literally_ anyone: doctors, pizza delivery guys, school bus drivers, teachers, and valet parkers, as just a few examples. You singled out civil servants, so I read it as you having some sort of specific issue with ALL of them. That was my point, that there are bad people in every vocation, and there are genuinely good ones out there, too. Apologies if I came across snippish initially. It seemed like you were not differentiating between the two, and, while my father was a lot of things, not all of them nice, I know the integrity he had for that job. So I tend to get a little…reactionary when I think he’s being maligned. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/109 "2017-08-08T07:46:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In the dark they aren’t. > > In the dark it’s not. Is the voice shouting “POLICE!” inaudible in the dark? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/110 "2017-08-08T08:09:11Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Is the voice shouting “POLICE!” inaudible in the dark? It was a no-knock raid and they were coming in through the window. It’s entirely probable that they hadn’t announced that they were police when the shots were fired. But even if they had, boy is that a convenient tip for home intruders! Police action should not be indistinguishable from a home invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/111 "2017-08-08T08:57:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Police action should not be indistinguishable from a home invasion. You would prefer that, in a volatile situation where the suspects may be armed and dangerous and in a position to destroy the evidence, the SWAT team should ring the doorbell, politely fold their hands behind their back, and say “Hello, sir or madam, may we please come in?” ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/112 "2017-08-08T09:10:29Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You would prefer that, in a volatile situation where the suspects may be armed and dangerous and in a position to destroy the evidence, the SWAT team should ring the doorbell, politely fold their hands behind their back, and say “Hello, sir or madam, may we please come in?” This is a bit like asking, “You would prefer that heroin addicts be given opiates for free, then?” in response to a proposed change in policy that decriminalizes heroin and sets up rehab centers. It misses about half of the cost-benefit analysis. On one hand, no-knock raids may help deal with cases where people would destroy the evidence or could be dangerous. On the other hand, they are a disgusting violation of our 4th-amendment rights, there’s little to no recourse when the police department screws up, the standards for a no-knock raid are _way_ too low, and the result is people killed, maimed, and forced into impossible situations. So what should we do about that? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/113 "2017-08-08T09:13:44Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > You would prefer that, in a volatile situation where the suspects may be armed and dangerous and in a position to destroy the evidence, the SWAT team should ring the doorbell, politely fold their hands behind their back, and say “Hello, sir or madam, may we please come in?” I would prefer they don’t break down the wrong door. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/114 "2017-08-08T09:15:02Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Not shooting people when you are so confused you can’t recognise a police uniform would be a good start. They are not difficult to recognise. > > Breaking down doors, using force to restrain violent people, dealing with armed people who have been seen waving a gun about, and identifying people are all part of their job. Even if you believe, in a specific incident, they are wrong about it, you shouldn’t resist, you should do as they say and question it in court later. That way no-one, police or otherwise, is unnecessarily harmed. > > I notice in your silly examples you ignore that the people shot appeared to the police to be reaching for weapons. To ignore that, even if you believe the police were wrong to think that, is foolish and destroys your point. > > You think it’s impossible to recognise a police uniform in the heat of the moment, but expect cops to tell the difference between a real and replica gun in the same situation. That’s a ridiculous double standard, and again destroys any argument you might have. Good job taking down that straw man! Continue to defend cops breaking down the wrong doors and shooting babies and sleeping old people, by all means. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/115 "2017-08-08T09:31:28Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > On one hand, no-knock raids may help deal with cases where people would destroy the evidence or could be dangerous. On the other hand, they are a disgusting violation of our 4th-amendment rights, there’s little to no recourse when the police department screws up, the standards for a no-knock raid are _way_ too low, and the result is people killed, maimed, and forced into impossible situations. So what should we do about that? Tighten up the standards for when no-knock warrants can be executed. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/116 "2017-08-08T11:33:28Z")
I’m not quite sure if this counts as Godwin’s Law or not, but the _Hitlerjugend_ were known for being so brainwashed into the cult that they couldn’t possibly, ever, never, see that any of their positions were seriously flawed. “If only you would please submit to wearing this nice, yellow star, everything will be okay!” Yeah, I’m kind of getting this vibe from at least one _Hitlerjugend_ in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/117 "2017-08-08T12:05:44Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Good job taking down that straw man! Continue to defend cops breaking down the wrong doors and shooting babies and sleeping old people, by all means. You are excluding a fucking enormous middle here, with your continued assumptions that anyone who doesn’t want to shoot cops on sight must worship the very ground they walk on. Even if cops are doing their job badly, they are doing their job. Don’t shoot them, challenge it in court later. It’s neither difficult nor complicated to understand that. And perhaps learn to recognise what a police uniform looks like. Again, not particularly difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/118 "2017-08-08T12:06:58Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I would prefer they don’t break down the wrong door. So would they. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/119 "2017-08-08T12:09:22Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Keep saying it. It doesnt change the horrific reality that is going on in the U.S. Cops are things and goons. If they are not doing the actual crime, then they are conspirators in covering it up. Some are. The vast majority are not. Just the same as any other group of people. > [@](#): > > If the websites added in the OT and the free Whoppers they get in uniform, the pay would be there. Keep your head in the sand and avoid the rath of Johnny Law. Your bizarre view that paying overtime is wrong is another strike against you in terms of taking you seriously. Oh, and are you going to correct your false claim about me yet? ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2017, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876/120 "2017-08-08T12:11:59Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > You are excluding a fucking enormous middle here, with your continued assumptions that anyone who doesn’t want to shoot cops on sight must worship the very ground they walk on. > > Even if cops are doing their job badly, they are doing their job. Don’t shoot them, challenge it in court later. It’s neither difficult nor complicated to understand that. > > And perhaps learn to recognise what a police uniform looks like. Again, not particularly difficult. If a cop is doing their job poorly, the person might not be able to challenge it in court due to being DEAD! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-cops-and-their-unions-dont-care-about-the-public/792876.md?page=7)