# Why couldnt a muslim become President? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 12, 2008, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579 "2008-10-12T13:53:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/41 "2008-10-12T17:24:59Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > India less, China more. Wait, are you saying that India is less tolerant of religious belief than America, but China is more tolerant? Because that’s bullshit. IMHO, they’re both less tolerant than America when it comes to religion. (Although regarding India, that’s mostly based on the news reports about fanatical Hindus attacking members of religious minorities. I’m sure that they represent only a tiny percentage of India’s Hindus.) > [@](#): > > Islam is the most stupefilying stupid and evil current religion now that the Inquistion and Crusades are over. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Have you ever met a Muslim? Most of them are perfectly ordinary people. I just spent two years living in a community that’s 40% Muslim, and I’m finding it pretty rude of you to talk about my neighbors like that. FWIW, I agree with you about Saudi Arabia, though. Their disregard for women is disgraceful, but I would argue that a lot of that is cultural and not religious. None of the Muslim women I know would put up with being told they can’t drive a car or get an education or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/42 "2008-10-12T17:29:10Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Is someone who refuses to vote for a Christian fundamentalist a bigot ? I’m of the opinion that there are many around here who would refuse to vote for a Christian fundamentalist because of his religion. Well I don’t see that as bigotry, and I certainly would hesitate to vote for a leader who was a Christian fundamentalist or a Muslim. I do see that as bigotry. It may well be that I wouldn’t vote for a Christian fundamentalist, but that would be after listening to what they say and figuring out what exactly it means to them before I made up my mind. The range of what it means to be a Christian fundamentalist or a Muslim encompass such a degree of difference that I wouldn’t hesitate any more for one over the other or indeed over a fellow atheist based on that information alone. So yes, I do consider that bigotry. It’s taking one piece of information and using that to extrapolate and assume quite vast swathes of other information based solely on it. Ah, so that guy’s on of those, is he? He must think this, and this, and do these things, too - I don’t need to look and see whether he does those things or not, i’ll just take it for granted and start with suspicion immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/43 "2008-10-12T17:29:55Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Considering the damage that a radical Christian sect did to the jews it’s not surprising they view them with suspicion. What are you referring to? Honestly, I’m scratching my head here. Also, is there a reason you don’t capitalize “Jew”? I’d assume it’s a typo, but you’ve done it three times in this thread now, so that’s sort of looking like a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/44 "2008-10-12T17:32:37Z")
Ramira: an honest question. Why don’t moderate Muslims take back their religion? Christianity has had so many schisms where groups broke out when the disagreed. Most American Christians reject papal authority for example. Isn’t it time for Muslims to say they won’t return to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj until they give women equal rights and respect religious freedom? Why aren’t moderate Muslims protesting Saudi Arabian embassies the way that American whites protested against South Africa? Where are the protest marches that defend the right of girls in the US to not wear scarfs and be free from violence of fundamentalist relatives? It’d be great to see an Islamic reformation. Instead it seems to be going the other way. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/45 "2008-10-12T17:37:55Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What are you referring to? Honestly, I’m scratching my head here. > > Also, is there a reason you don’t capitalize “Jew”? I’d assume it’s a typo, but you’ve done it three times in this thread now, so that’s sort of looking like a pattern. Lack of capitalization is just laziness. I was referring to the Inquisition. Now some will say that applied only to Jews that converted, but many Jews converted under pressure. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/46 "2008-10-12T17:38:03Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > What are you referring to? Honestly, I’m scratching my head here. > > Also, is there a reason you don’t capitalize “Jew”? I’d assume it’s a typo, but you’ve done it three times in this thread now, so that’s sort of looking like a pattern. The Inquisition (Spanish, Italian, French, and otherwise)? The [English](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion)? The Nazis? (not explicitly Christian) I don’t know what’s being referred to either, but the Jews have been picked on enough times it’s a wonder they associate with anyone else at all. EDIT: Ah, it’s been answered. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/47 "2008-10-12T17:43:43Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Ramira: an honest question. Why don’t moderate Muslims take back their religion? Christianity has had so many schisms where groups broke out when the disagreed. Most American Christians reject papal authority for example. > > Isn’t it time for Muslims to say they won’t return to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj until they give women equal rights and respect religious freedom? Why aren’t moderate Muslims protesting Saudi Arabian embassies the way that American whites protested against South Africa? > > Where are the protest marches that defend the right of girls in the US to not wear scarfs and be free from violence of fundamentalist relatives? > > It’d be great to see an Islamic reformation. Instead it seems to be going the other way. Take back? Most Muslims are poor, and have other worries than to worry about the Arabians, it is not the centre of their lives. Why are you not protesting the brutality of American bombs killing innocent villagers for bad or fake pretexts…? I do not find the quesiton honest. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/48 "2008-10-12T17:45:20Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Ramira: an honest question. Why don’t moderate Muslims take back their religion? Christianity has had so many schisms where groups broke out when the disagreed. Most American Christians reject papal authority for example. Islam has no central authority from which you could “break.” There’s no Pope of Islam. By what mechanism are you proposing moderate Muslims “take back” their religion? There’s nothing to take back. > [@](#): > > Isn’t it time for Muslims to say they won’t return to Saudi Arabia for the Hajj until they give women equal rights and respect religious freedom? Who, exactly, would they be saying this to? ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/49 "2008-10-12T17:49:32Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Have you ever met a Muslim? Most of them are perfectly ordinary people. I just spent two years living in a community that’s 40% Muslim, and I’m finding it pretty rude of you to talk about my neighbors like that. Ever met a fundmantalist Christian? They couldn’t be nicer. That doesn’t mean their religion isn’t fucked up and that if they are in charge their policies won’t hurt many people. And yes, I know many Muslims. None of them still practice it in any real sense other than the cultural aspects. Much like me and Christmas. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/50 "2008-10-12T17:53:35Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Who, exactly, would they be saying this to? Not sure I understand. By “say the won’t come back for the Hajj” I meant they’d not come back for the Hajj. Maybe they could post a polite letter in the NY Times for the Saudis to read, but they may not want to do that considering Salan Rushdie and Theo van Gogh. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/51 "2008-10-12T17:53:48Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Ever met a fundmantalist Christian? They couldn’t be nicer. That doesn’t mean their religion isn’t fucked up and that if they are in charge their policies won’t hurt many people. > > And yes, I know many Muslims. None of them still practice it in any real sense other than the cultural aspects. Much like me and Christmas. Are you sure? I have had many Muslim students (mostly, as I mentioned, from Easter Europe) over the years, and most are very quiet about it: you would think of it as just being “cultural”, but they quietly keep Ramadan (not a little thing when you are cheering at a football game or playing tennis in TX) and their faith is sincere. They just don’t evangelize. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/52 "2008-10-12T17:55:23Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Why are you not protesting the brutality of American bombs killing innocent villagers for bad or fake pretexts…? I have. I’ve also protested against the Gulf War and Vietnam, and for women’s rights. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/53 "2008-10-12T17:56:39Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > And yes, I know many Muslims. None of them still practice it in any real sense other than the cultural aspects. Much like me and Christmas. So like the crazy bearded ones, you like people who act like you, because if they are like you they are good people, but if they do not, then they are bad people. Very enlightening. Of course since typically most Muslims are not very showy about tihngs like practice, and of course becuase of evident bigotry as shown in the hateful statements like to be a practicing Muslim is to be insane, many people keep quiet. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/54 "2008-10-12T17:58:43Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Are you sure? I have had many Muslim students (mostly, as I mentioned, from Easter Europe) over the years, and most are very quiet about it: you would think of it as just being “cultural”, but they quietly keep Ramadan (not a little thing when you are cheering at a football game or playing tennis in TX) and their faith is sincere. They just don’t evangelize. I’m sure there may be some like you say, I was just trying to be honest that I don’t know many outwardly observant Muslims. One of my Jordanian friends is gay and observes Ramadan, but is otherwise a non-believer. He is also afraid to go home in case they find out he is gay. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/55 "2008-10-12T18:05:17Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Not sure I understand. By “say the won’t come back for the Hajj” I meant they’d not come back for the Hajj. Maybe they could post a polite letter in the NY Times for the Saudis to read, but they may not want to do that considering Salan Rushdie and Theo van Gogh. Perhaps because it is politicising the religion and most people are against that, because they do not confuse the Saudis and their domestic habits with the Duty to God to make the Hajj if possible, even if no one likes the Suadis very much? You treat the Hajj like a vacation, it is not to solid believers, it is a great duty and priviledge. And in any case, it is not something you choose to do, there are limits on how many people can go any year. You suggest making religion more political, thinking exactly in the same political fashion as the Al Qaeda people. This would make things worse and stupider. But then you are basing your opinions on shallow stereotypes, so this is no surprise. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/56 "2008-10-12T18:13:55Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Of course since typically most Muslims are not very showy about tihngs like practice [http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLG\_en&resnum=0&q=video+islamic+prayer&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv&oi=property\_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1#q=muslim%20prayer%20indonesia&hl=en&emb=0](http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLG_en&resnum=0&q=video+islamic+prayer&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1#q=muslim%20prayer%20indonesia&hl=en&emb=0) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/57 "2008-10-12T18:16:31Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Perhaps because it is politicising the religion and most people are against that, because they do not confuse the Saudis and their domestic habits with the Duty to God to make the Hajj if possible, even if no one likes the Suadis very much? > > You treat the Hajj like a vacation, it is not to solid believers, it is a great duty and priviledge. And in any case, it is not something you choose to do, there are limits on how many people can go any year. > > You suggest making religion more political, thinking exactly in the same political fashion as the Al Qaeda people. This would make things worse and stupider. But then you are basing your opinions on shallow stereotypes, so this is no surprise. I guess there is nothing you can do then. Just let the fanatics take over your religion and spread hate. Que sera, sera. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/58 "2008-10-12T18:16:55Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Not sure I understand. By “say the won’t come back for the Hajj” I meant they’d not come back for the Hajj. Maybe they could post a polite letter in the NY Times for the Saudis to read, but they may not want to do that considering Salan Rushdie and Theo van Gogh. I’m not entirely sure how you see this as a great pressure being put on. Could you explain how this would help? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/59 "2008-10-12T18:30:46Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > [http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLG\_en&resnum=0&q=video+islamic+prayer&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv&oi=property\_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1#q=muslim%20prayer%20indonesia&hl=en&emb=0](http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGLG_en&resnum=0&q=video+islamic+prayer&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv&oi=property_suggestions&resnum=0&ct=property-revision&cd=1#q=muslim%20prayer%20indonesia&hl=en&emb=0) And you found a video, so I am to conclude you know how to use google, yes? Is there a proper argument beyond you fear and hate Muslims[edt] when they are not westernised to be less scary? ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579/60 "2008-10-12T18:34:03Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > I guess there is nothing you can do then. Just let the fanatics take over your religion and spread hate. Que sera, sera. Eh? The Saudis are not the Popes of Islam. There is not a Popes in Islam. Politising religion makes fanaticism. Anyway it is not smart to take advice from people who only know the subject from shallow stereotypes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-couldnt-a-muslim-become-president/467579.md?page=4)