# Why defend fundies if we are at war with ignorance? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 26, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235 "2004-02-26T03:56:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/461 "2004-03-05T05:20:40Z")
JerseyDiamond: If your god forbids two people to love each-other, he’s a fuckhead. If your hell excist, you’re certainly going into it. Tell that to your children. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/462 "2004-03-05T05:59:48Z")
> [@lynn73](#): > > But I see no reason we can’t share views and just agree to disagree. Let me try to explain to you patiently (and you know my temper;)) why we can share views but it’s not a matter of agreeing to disagree. This is my life. Not a theory, not a “what if” but my life. There is no agreeing to disagree when it comes to who I am. **I am who I am**. No amount of Bible verses thrown at me since I came out (nor before when I was questioning), no amount of legislation against my kind, no amount of letters to the editor I’ve seen that compare me and mine to pedophiles, to child rapists, to incestuous relations, to having sex with stray goats … no amount of that changes **one iota** of who I am. Who I am is not up for debate. There is no logical opponent to the fact that I am who I am. Concerning this facet there is no debate, just people who erroneously believe I wake up each morning and say “I, **iampunha** , do hereby swear to be half-fabulous, to ogle at least five men and to boldly go where no gloved hand has gone before.” There is no choice, there is no Gay Agenda to review each morning, there is no gay lifestyle, or bisexual lifestyle, or whatever … you wanna know what I do? More often than not I’m either online, sleeping, in class or tutoring. Every weekday I do the crossword puzzle to the best of my ability. Sometimes it takes five minutes and sometimes I get all of five clues. Before or after (or sometimes, when I’m feeling particularly daring, DURING) I do the jumble. I read the Letters to see which side of this issue they’re running on that particular day. Of late it’s been the ones who subscribe to the notion that Biblical beliefs should be legislated into a secular document. These are also the ones who believe, while knowing almost nothing about me (and nothing directly), that I am as bad as a pedophile because of the simple fact that I am attracted, in any amount, to members of my own sex. That is not up for debate. That it is part of me, and a part that were I to desire it for even a second to change … wouldn’t. You are attracted to men, IIRC:) You are, as far as I am aware, unable to turn off that part of yourself. You can certainly hide your attraction to an extent, you can suppress it, you can try as you might not to act on it … but ultimately you are attracted to men. What is the difference between your attraction to men and mine? Truly, honestly, I want to know in your opinion what the difference is between your attraction to men and mine. I want you to think about some other things, too. Think about, as meaningful as your faith is to you … think about someone telling you with all the fervency in their being that your God is false, that your God is weak, that your God does not exist, that you use your Bible purely as a means of hate, as a means of castigation. Think about someone taking something so personally meaningful to you, something you put on the line every day of your life, and trashing it without concern for your feelings - or deliberately to upset them. Think about your elected officials, who are paid by you, among many others, gathering together specifically to deny rights to you. Think about them spending their day drafting legislation specifically to thwart what you cannot see as anything but an act of love for your partner. Think about them spending a day thinking just how to write a law to make sure you are never allowed to worship freely, to own a Bible, to pray. You have the luxury of not fighting this battle. Your rights, or at least what rights you will reasonably exercise in your lifetime, are not under attack. Mine are. There is, quite simply, no point in any of what I am doing or what anyone else who is with me is doing if I simply agree to disagree. It is tantamount to giving up. And when money is being taken from my pocket in a deliberate effort to limit the ways in which I can express my love for a fellow human being, I take grand exception to that. Can we share views? For sure. Are you going to inspire in me the belief that the God in whom you profess faith is worthy of my attention by telling me that He hates any of His creations? By telling me where your book says I am going, am I supposed to convert out of fear? No, the stronger convert is one who converts out of desire to be close to God (Heaven), not out of fear of not being close to God (Hell). I have never understood the rationale behind scare tactics as used to convert people to a religion whose central tenet is one of love, not condemnation (wasn’t Christ supposed to alleviate some of that?;)). You will not win my heart by quoting legalistic scripture at me. You will not win my heart by trying to inspire in me fear of that which I cannot see. You will not win my heart by insulting me, by telling me I am unnatural, by comparing me to the foulest of creatures, just as those who have insulted you here have not drawn you closer to their perspective. Insults, hate, fear, loathing, castigation … they all serve only to separate people. You will win my heart with love, and living such that you do not need to tell people you are Christian is the only way to do it. I am drawn more to the belief in a higher power by watching my cats play than I am by people who earnestly believe that talking about God’s hate will win me over. People who, having been told countless times that they do not know of what they speak, yet continue to do so without remorse, without regret, without respect … they no more inspire me to the truth of their words than do those who picket funerals. Remember back to the time Jesus entered the temple and found it had been turned into a marketplace. Greed, envy, pride, lust, sloth … all these had defiled the holy place. Remember what he did? It wasn’t pretty. The inside of that temple, before Jesus ransacked it, is how the heart of those above look to me. They do not speak to me of love, and they do not have it. They have fear. They speak of fear of God, not love of God. They are hypnotized by it, and all their attentions are focused on it rather than His love. Hypnotize me with love. (I would have emailed this but you had none available) ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/463 "2004-03-05T06:13:06Z")
From [Dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bigot), we get this from the definition of that oh-so-popular word, ‘bigot’: > [@](#): > > …In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion. That certainly describes the gay crowd around here. Kettles, you have a call from pots, line 3. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/464 "2004-03-05T07:29:51Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > These are also the ones who believe, while knowing almost nothing about me (and nothing directly), that I am as bad as a pedophile because of the simple fact that I am attracted, in any amount, to members of my own sex. > > That is not up for debate. That it is part of me, and a part that were I to desire it for even a second to change … wouldn’t. You are attracted to men, IIRC:) You are, as far as I am aware, unable to turn off that part of yourself. You can certainly hide your attraction to an extent, you can suppress it, you can try as you might not to act on it … but ultimately you are attracted to men. > > What is the difference between your attraction to men and mine? Truly, honestly, I want to know in your opinion what the difference is between your attraction to men and mine. So how is your attraction to men any different to a paedophile’s attraction to children? or a beasto’s attraction to animals? or a necro’s attraction to corpses? Can you tell me that? Of course, then your going to go on about consent, but **you** being the hypocrit gay that you are, will bring consent into it. But that’s who they are. According to you, there’s nothing wrong with that. Why aren’t paedophiles allowed to have sex with consenting children? That’s who they are? Why are they criminals? 'Nuff said. Point made. ---
**Author:** ![MrVisible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@MrVisible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrVisible)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/465 "2004-03-05T07:35:46Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > So how is your attraction to men any different to a paedophile’s attraction to children? or a beasto’s attraction to animals? or a necro’s attraction to corpses? Can you tell me that? Of course, then your going to go on about consent, but **you** being the hypocrit gay that you are, will bring consent into it. But that’s who they are. According to you, there’s nothing wrong with that. Why aren’t paedophiles allowed to have sex with consenting children? That’s who they are? Why are they criminals? > > 'Nuff said. Point made. Yeah, if your point is that you’re an ignorant, bigoted asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/466 "2004-03-05T08:03:39Z")
And people wonder why I’m an atheist. **Gobear** , I’m straight as an arrow, and I’m with you 100%. More, if it’s possible. Fuck all fundies, and fuck all the weasels who try to wriggle out of it. It is simply bewildering that anyone would think the government has the right to legislate against gay marriage. It’s absolutely filthy and shameful. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/467 "2004-03-05T08:07:00Z")
_posted by jkim78_ > [@](#): > > Of course, then your going to go on about consent, but you being the hypocrit gay that you are, will bring consent into it. Well, Lets hear it from a hetero-sexual, shall we?: Children or animals haven’t got the brains [yet] to consent. Adults do. And I agree with **Mr.Visible** ; You’re a creepy bigot. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/468 "2004-03-05T08:56:43Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Children or animals haven’t got the brains [yet] to consent. Adults do. Have you got any cites? Specific scientific studies to show that they ALL have not got the brains to consent? Proof that they cannot? And even so, that’s beside the point. The point was that _iampunha_ says being gay is what he is. He doesn’t need to perform gay acts. He’s just… well… gay. How about a paedophile who doesn’t perform any paedophile acts? What’s wrong with him? We still want to lock him up right? > [@MrVisible](#): > > Yeah, if your point is that you’re an ignorant, bigoted asshole. Why thank you. Atleast I’m not a gay ignorant hypocritical and very very stupid asshole like yourself. Throw your insults where you cannot reply in reason. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/469 "2004-03-05T09:04:19Z")
> [@gum](#): > > Children or animals haven’t got the brains [yet] to consent. And those 15-16 year old street prostitutes don’t have the brains to sell their bodies, and a 21 year old street prostitute does?.. err… ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/470 "2004-03-05T09:04:23Z")
Pedophiles harm children. Gay people do not harm their lovers. To compare my relationship with the rape of an innocent child is sick. I’m not hurting anyone. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/471 "2004-03-05T09:08:00Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > And those 15-16 year old street prostitutes don’t have the brains to sell their bodies, and a 21 year old street prostitute does?.. err… Jesus, there is a legal concept called an age of consent, which I think we can all agree is a good thing. Let’s not pretend that it doesn’t exist. And stop comparing me to child rapists. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/472 "2004-03-05T09:12:22Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Jesus, there is a legal concept called an age of consent, which I think we can all agree is a good thing. Let’s not pretend that it doesn’t exist. > > And stop comparing me to child rapists. I still dont get it. How the fuck is it rape if the **child prostitutes** of age 15-16 are the ones to walk up to and seek the money of in exchange for sex of one middle age paedophile, and not the other way around? Why is the paedophile axed for this? and not the kid for selling her body when she was underage? ---
**Author:** ![Ferrous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Ferrous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferrous)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/473 "2004-03-05T09:14:11Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > Atleast I’m not a gay ignorant hypocritical and very very stupid asshole like yourself. Throw your insults where you cannot reply in reason. That’s rich. Call him names, and then criticize him for calling you names. You’re not gay, and I can’t really say whether you’re a hypocrite, not having encountered you before, but you certainly appear to be an ignorant and very very stupid asshole. ---
**Author:** ![jkim78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@jkim78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jkim78)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/474 "2004-03-05T09:27:41Z")
> [@spectrum](#): > > Jesus, there is a legal concept called an age of consent, which I think we can all agree is a good thing. Let’s not pretend that it doesn’t exist. And let’s not pretend that the girls arent in it for the money… ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/475 "2004-03-05T09:28:32Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > I still dont get it. How the fuck is it rape if the **child prostitutes** of age 15-16 are the ones to walk up to and seek the money of in exchange for sex of one middle age paedophile, and not the other way around? Because ANY sex between an adult and a child who is not of age is rape REGARDLESS of the situation. A child cannot enter into a contract, so they could not “sell themselves” and they cannot legally give consent for sex, so even if they’re all for it, it is still rape. > [@](#): > > Why is the paedophile axed for this? and not the kid for selling her body when she was underage? Both should be penalized. But the perverted adult should be punished more severely because rape is a far more serious crime than prostitution. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/476 "2004-03-05T10:39:25Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > So how is your attraction to men any different to a paedophile’s attraction to children? or a beasto’s attraction to animals? or a necro’s attraction to corpses? Can you tell me that? Of course, then your going to go on about consent, but **you** being the hypocrit gay that you are, will bring consent into it. But that’s who they are. According to you, there’s nothing wrong with that. Why aren’t paedophiles allowed to have sex with consenting children? That’s who they are? Why are they criminals? > > 'Nuff said. Point made. And the point is that are a truly a moron. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/477 "2004-03-05T12:07:42Z")
> [@jkim78](#): > > So how is your attraction to men any different to a paedophile’s attraction to children? or a beasto’s attraction to animals? or a necro’s attraction to corpses? Can you tell me that? Of course, then your going to go on about consent, but **you** being the hypocrit gay that you are, will bring consent into it. But that’s who they are. According to you, there’s nothing wrong with that. Why aren’t paedophiles allowed to have sex with consenting children? That’s who they are? Why are they criminals? > > 'Nuff said. Point made. I bow before your superior reasoning skills. Seriously. I mean, I’ve never heard this argument before. :rolleyes: I would compare heterosexuals and homosexuals because they are having sex with people of similar age. I would contrast them with pedophiles because they are having sex with people who are way younger than they are, and also with someone who is into beastiality because they are having sex with a different species. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/478 "2004-03-05T12:14:22Z")
_sigh_ I was ignoring that assmonkey, but you guys have to give him the attention he craves. I find it rich that **jkim78** (judging by his name and bad English, I’m guessing he’s a Korean living in Australia, so I’m going to insult the _sangnom_ in _hangukmal_) is bringing up child prostitutes in a discussion of homosexuality because the child sex trade is driven almost entirely by heterosexual pedophiles. Now, if I were a _wang pabo_ like the cerebrally-deprived _jkim78_, I’d condemn all hetero men as pedophiles, not recognizing that the criminal aberrants who harm children have **no** connection to the majority of regular straight men. But a _shiphal kaeseki_ like the sad **jkim78** would not be able to contemplate two contrastring thoughts at the same time in the lamentably microcephalic chamberpot he calls his skull. Booked any flights to Thailand or the Philippines lately, **jkim78** , you _hangmun_? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/479 "2004-03-05T12:23:51Z")
> [@lynn73](#): > > What in the world is your problem? And what does all your ranting have to do with my post about Jersey?? I was polite in my post and this is the response I get? I haven’t posted in awhile and what I posted has nothing to do with all this ranting of yours. Just because I don’t share your position on some of these things, doesn’t make me some kind of slug for you to verbally abuse. Rather than hijack this thread, I’ve laid out my problems with you [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=243371) It is Lent, which means a more than proper time for atonement on my part. CJ ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235/480 "2004-03-05T15:27:47Z")
> [@JerseyDiamond](#): > > Did I tell you to suck it up? I don’t think so. > > :rolleyes: > you’re an idiot Here is an example of Judgmentalism. Where are the examples of Christ-like love? Not in any of Jersey’s posts, for sure. Sad. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-defend-fundies-if-we-are-at-war-with-ignorance/231235.md?page=25)