# Why did American cars get such a bum rap in the '70s and '80s? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 4, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625 "2010-01-04T15:50:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/21 "2010-01-04T20:10:23Z")
Going from memory, several things combined to make American (and really, most) cars from the period to have a poor reputation: 1. Early emission controls – these fostered poor running, as others have said, and significantly reduced horsepower over similar vehicles of the late '60s. 2. 5 MPH crash standards – beginning with the '73 model year, vehicles sold in the US were required to have bumpers that could withstand a 5 mph impact with no damage whatever. As this capability had to be grafted onto existing designs for the most part, this added weight at a time when extraa mass was ill-afforded (see 1 above). 3. The first fuel crisis – also around '73, fuel prices began skyrocketing, which in turn begat federal requirements for fleet fuel mileage. American manufacturers had little recent experience building lightweight, fuel-efficient vehicles in the European and Japanese idiom, and it showed with clunkers like the Chevy Vega and Ford Pinto. 4. Bad engineering choices – US manufacturers for decades had been gradually squeezing their suppliers to provide components at lower costs, much the way Wal-Malt famously does to its suppliers today. The reward? Relatively inexpensive vehicles built of poor-quality materials. In addition to this, engineering choices were made that probably seemed sound at the time, but turned out problematic, such as the Vega’s all-aluminum engine that began burning oil almost from the time the car left the showroom. Also the manufacturers began using many more plastic components than previously to save both wieght and cost, but these often turned out to be less durable than anticipated. This resulted in cars that after a few years had numerous faded or broken body or interior components that made them visually horrific. Lastly, far less use was made of galvanized or otherwise rust-resistant body and chassis components; coupled with an apparent use of lighter-guage sheet metal than in previous generations, cars from anywhere salt was used on roads in winter would show significant rusting within two years from purchase. Thing is, pretty much all passenger cars fronm this period shared at least some of these defects, so I wouldn’t lay it just on the American manufacturers. If the Japanese cars of the time were better, and I agree they generally were, it was mainly in relative rather than absolute terms. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/22 "2010-01-04T22:03:30Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > I But… **did you know** : Some Japanese companies started to build big SUVs and heavy-duty pickups trucks, something American companies do well… and Toyota and Nissan quickly found some their products on the ‘do not buy’ list from Consumer Reports (CR): The Nissan Armada and Titan, and the V8-equipped Toyota Tundra and Sequoia line. These are big vehicles meant to duel with the Dodge Rams, Chevy Silverado and Tahoes, and Ford F150 and Expedition. I believe CR has the Nissan and Toyota offerings on the ‘worst used cars’ list, which speaks to long-term reliability issues more than anything else. FYI, the “Japanese” Tundra, Armada, Sequoia and Titan are all manufactured in the United States. So what’s the lesson again? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/23 "2010-01-04T22:36:48Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > FYI, the “Japanese” Tundra, Armada, Sequoia and Titan are all manufactured in the United States. > > So what’s the lesson again? iPhones and iPods are manufactured in China, but that doesn’t make them Chinese products. They’re _American_ products, manufactured in China. Likewise, Japanese cars manufactured in the United States are still Japanese cars, and German cars manufactured in the United States are still German cars. Manufacturing is routine. While it’s possible to have badly trained employees, in _today’s_ terms, manufacturing is (again) routine. Where was the engineering done? Where’s the company headquarters? Where’s the majority of the capital investment made? In the end, where does the money flow (not just profits, but expense) end up going? The final assembly plant of an automotive business is really an less significant part of the entire cost structure of the venture. Saying that a car is manufactured in the USA doesn’t do anything to affect its lineage. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/24 "2010-01-05T01:27:16Z")
Several of the Chevy models like the Vega, Nova, and Camaro of the late 70s and early 80s must have been pre-rusted at the factory. There is no other explanation for the swiftness of decay. I imagine a large tank of rust water that the bodies where dipped in prior to painting. Especially the maroon/dark red GM color used then. A major componant of the paint must have been rust. The phrase, ‘rust never sleeps’, will always remind me of my Nova. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/25 "2010-01-05T01:41:34Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > The phrase, ‘rust never sleeps’, will always remind me of my Nova. I worked with a guy once that had a chemistry degree. He always referred to cars of that era have bodies that were lithium based 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/26 "2010-01-05T14:01:52Z")
> [@Philster](#): > > I believe if you imported GM cars from Europe and did little or nothing to them, the the UAW would have fits. Sounds simple, but so many GM problems are because they are/were bound to stamp out things and pay a large workforce, whether it made sense or not. > > For the record: GM tried to build small cars, something others mastered, and didn’t do so well. But… **did you know** : Some Japanese companies started to build big SUVs and heavy-duty pickups trucks, something American companies do well… and Toyota and Nissan quickly found some their products on the ‘do not buy’ list from Consumer Reports (CR): The Nissan Armada and Titan, and the V8-equipped Toyota Tundra and Sequoia line. These are big vehicles meant to duel with the Dodge Rams, Chevy Silverado and Tahoes, and Ford F150 and Expedition. I believe CR has the Nissan and Toyota offerings on the ‘worst used cars’ list, which speaks to long-term reliability issues more than anything else. Well, take the case of the Cadillac “Catera”-don’t you love that goofy name? It started life as a German-built Opel Senator-a nice, well-designed car, about equivilent to a low-end BMW. GM redesigned the car for the N American market-and added 600 pounds to the weight! They also detuned the shocks (so US buyers could enjoy a nice mushy ride,) changed the steering ration (so the formely responsive steering was nice and loose), and fucked up the transmission-so you couldn’t get the thing to downshift. In sum total, they took a nice car, and wrecked it! Then they wondered why their customers were buying BMWs! Talk about brain dead. ---
**Author:** ![Philster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/13edae/32.png) [@Philster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/27 "2010-01-05T14:14:36Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > FYI, the “Japanese” Tundra, Armada, Sequoia and Titan are all manufactured in the United States. > > So what’s the lesson again? So are all the reliable “Japanese” cars. What was the lesson again? ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/28 "2010-01-05T22:25:32Z")
> [@Unintentionally\_Blank](#): > > A stick will most likely require a clutch (or three)… > > It’s more a factor of perception than fact. Further, it’s rare for someone to actually hold on to a car for that period of time. They tire at 75,000-100,000 miles and move on to something else. The car may last that long but not be in their care. The car may die a premature death due to impact, or a Salesdroid may ‘take it off their hands’ for $500, put a little money into it, and sell it for $2500, where it gets another 25,000 miles, or 100,000 miles depending on how it’s treated. Well, maybe, but my 1990 Honda Prelude made it to well over 200K miles, and it never had its clutch replaced. And my 2002 Mazda’s currently at 106K miles and going really strong - I plan to keep it for another 4-5 years. Yes, it’s needed the routine maintenance you mentioned, but nothing other than that. I agree with you that for today’s cars, the quality is roughly equal. But that hasn’t always been the case. And not everyone needs rebuilds or keeps their cars for a short period of time. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/29 "2011-01-30T19:24:31Z")
In three words; aluminum block engine what schlock!! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/30 "2011-01-30T19:35:22Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Well, take the case of the Cadillac “Catera”-don’t you love that goofy name? It started life as a German-built Opel Senator-a nice, well-designed car, about equivilent to a low-end BMW. No, it started life as an Opel Omega. The Senator was something more akin to an American car for the European market (that is, awful); the Omega was quite a good car. And the changes made to the Catera weren’t what GM _thought_ American buyers wanted: they _were_ what American buyers wanted, tuned through dozens of focus groups. Especially Cadillac buyers. You might want a car that handles well and stops and goes quickly; the average American buyer didn’t. They wanted a couch with a steering wheel. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/31 "2011-01-30T20:14:27Z")
The American manufacturers definitely hadn’t figured out materials yet. The plastics used on the dashboards, for example, would start blistering and peeling after a few years of sunlight. So even if your car exceeded the 100,000 mile mark (pretty rare at that time), it would look like total crap. And rust was a real issue (although, to be fair, it was for the non-American cars as well.) Most cars that spent more than 6-8 years in a winter weather area would pretty much disintegrate around the wheel wells due to salt. Rust prevention is infinitely better now. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/32 "2011-01-30T20:14:43Z")
American cars during that period sucked and blew. Particularly when the government mandated change in leaded gasoline and increasing mileage the American companies did not adapt quickly or well. Cadillac came out with a diesel engine that was a disaster. Damn near every single one of them blew head gaskets regularly. There was no excuse for this. GM had been making diesel engines for decades. The Japanese companies ate the lunch of the American companies because they were ready with high mileage cars that didn’t fall to pieces. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/33 "2011-01-30T21:02:59Z")
One of the British automobile companies at the time had an [internal] slogan - “The customer is our final inspector”. And it was true - they did leave final inspection to the customer. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/34 "2011-01-30T22:25:28Z")
I remember my Dad getting Ford and Chevy company cars throughout the 80’s. I also remember him repeatedly taking the cars back to the dealership to replace something simple, only to have to return time and again until it was handled coorectly. I also remember that any warranty work seemed to require arguments with the Service Manager to get done. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/35 "2011-01-30T22:30:57Z")
American cars of the 70s and 80s may have been dogshit but the trucks were built solid. You can still frequently see 30 to 40 year old trucks going strong, for municipal utility fleets, construction companies, and independent tradesmen like landscapers and carpenters. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/36 "2011-01-30T22:35:17Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > American cars of the 70s and 80s may have been dogshit but the trucks were built solid. You can still frequently see 30 to 40 year old trucks going strong, for municipal utility fleets, construction companies, and independent tradesmen like landscapers and carpenters. Agreed. Remember the 80’s Toyota pickups that’d run forever, except that their bodies would completely rust out? I can remember quite often seeing them with the bed removed and replaced with wood. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/37 "2011-01-30T22:36:54Z")
So basically, American cars in the 70s and 8os did NOT get a bum rap - the rap was entirely accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/38 "2011-01-30T22:59:53Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Agreed. > > Remember the 80’s Toyota pickups that’d run forever, except that their bodies would completely rust out? I can remember quite often seeing them with the bed removed and replaced with wood. Obligatory [Top Gear link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnWKz7Cthkk). ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/39 "2011-01-30T23:32:23Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > **Why did American cars get such a bum rap in the '70s and '80s?** I’m going to answer before reading the rest of the thread. Because they sucked. My dad owned a number American cars during my teens years; rat traps all. Ever have an inside door handle break and come off, and the driver’s side mirror fall off in the same week, on a brand new car? It happened on my dad’s Granada. Ever smell rust in a car? We did, in my dad’s Ford Fairmont, about a day after it rained, every time. Never knew rust had a smell, did you? Ever have a new car smoke? We did, about 6 months after my dad bought his spanking new Chevy Chevette. I still remember the tag line in the commercials for the Chevette: “Chevy Chevette will drive you happy.” That car gave my dad one problem after the other, besides never, ever getting warm in the Winter. What a joke. We had a station wagon a one point. I don’t remember the brand. I’m thinking Ford, but I’m not sure. It was American though, and huge, and brown…with tan accents on the doors, with plastic inserts that were supposed to look like wood paneling…yes, on the outside of the car. Ugly doesn’t adequately describe it. The car completely lost its breaks three times that I know about; once when my mom was driving it. My sister’s leg was cut when a spring broke off of something beneath the passenger’s seat. My childhood experiences are the main reasons I will never own an American car. And no, I don’t care to give them a second chance. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625/40 "2011-01-31T00:09:23Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So basically, American cars in the 70s and 8os did NOT get a bum rap - the rap was entirely accurate. Agreed. Bum rap implies it wasn’t justified. American cars of the time rusted badly and ran poorly. And IMO it was an intended strategy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-american-cars-get-such-a-bum-rap-in-the-70s-and-80s/523625.md?page=3)