# Why did anyone "believe" in the stories about Jesus from the start? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 8, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161 "2015-04-08T21:37:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/41 "2015-04-10T22:17:14Z")
> [@NewRalph124c](#): > > I had read that by the time of the Council of Nicea, there was an immense amount of pseudo-gospel writings around, and that one of the objectives of the council was to examine and remove those thought to be spurious. Do many of these writings survive today? what do modern bible scholars think of them? See post 32.\* You can buy it and the other apocryphal texts in any well stocked Catholic bookstore. \* and later: Oddly the first Gospel may be Thomas (likely not written by Thomas at all) which apparently contains quotes and sayings first put down to pen only a few years after the Crucifixion, or even during His life. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/42 "2015-04-10T22:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > The immaculate conception. Why were people 2000 years ago more likely to believe that a young woman got pregnant due to a miracle from god than that she just snuck out at night, had sex with someone, and got pregnant? The latter is the kind of thing that must have been a commonly done thing for as long as people have been around to observe it…Literally, people of both genders sneaking off to have sex is something despite tribal or parental restrictions is a story as old as mammals. Right, but to counter that you had many religions that had similar beliefs, i.e. some god coming down as a flight of birds or a shower of light and scrumping some human woman and giving birth to another god, goddess, hero or whatever. This is basically in that tradition. Why did they believe it? Why do people believe anything? Because it fit their world view and seemed plausible to them and explained something within that model to them or fit a story tradition they grew up with. > [@](#): > > Almost no one today believes in UFO videos - the alleged alien spacecraft is generally either too blurry to see anything or is blatantly obviously a cgi fake. Either way, the simplest explanation is the video is fake or the camera used was faulty or people are seeing a man-made, identifiable flying object. A LOT of people believe in UFOs and all manner of, to a non-believer, crazy shit today…magic crystals, hokey medical cures, ghosts, bigfoots (bigFEET, to paraphrase from The Lord of the Rings), ancient aliens…you name it and there are plenty of folks who believe it. Hell, spend a night watching History Channel or TLC/Discovery or even sometimes the (ironically named, at least sometimes) Science Channel and you’ll see some weird shit folks believe that’s no more incredible than believing that gods/God scrumps human women and make them pregnant or that folks dead for 3 days can resurrect and ascend into heaven. > [@](#): > > Could these events have been miracles? Sure. Just like it could be that the universe never existed until 1 second ago, and everything you remember is a forgery created by God. That theory is not useful to your existence, any more than believing that some guy 2000 years ago did something that is considered impossible and you cannot observe happening now. I think you have to look at them in the context of the prevalent world view at the time…where they fit in perfectly. Just like the world view today can conceive and believe in aliens, magic crystals and moon hoaxes. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2015, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/43 "2015-04-10T22:43:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Just like the world view today can conceive and believe in aliens, magic crystals and moon hoaxes. It’s not really a fair comparison. Today, these things compete with modern science, and we live in an atmosphere of skepticism. At the time of Christ, there was no modern science, and certainly no atmosphere of skepticism. Also, moon hoaxes and UFO videos don’t usually come packaged in the same box set with the best ethical and moral teaching on the market. A couple of millennia ago, well, sometimes they sort of did. That might sound as strange as a bacon-ice cream sandwich\* to some of us, but I guess people used to like it. I’d tune in to the History Channel more often it they had Sermon on the Mount quality programming mixed in with their weird stuff. (\*Bracing myself for comments praising the culinary values of the bacon-ice cream sandwich.) ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/44 "2015-04-11T02:12:13Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well, you do have the scholarship, starting apparently in the 1850s, of analyzing word patterns in the Bible. This is what led to the notion of the various documents that were assembled together to become Genesis. In theory, anyone could have done that, as far back as Constantine. But in practice, it was only undertaken so very, very recently. > > Later discoveries gave additional impetus to this scholarship, to be certain. Nag Hammadi doesn’t really assist any theological viewpoints, but it’s historically fascinating. That is all true but what I was referencing in > [@kopek](#): > > What I find amazing is how many of our traditions (Peter being crucified upside down and the “boyhood” stories of Christ) come more from the Apocrypha than they do the actual Bible. That one has always made me go “hmmm”. is that many of the traditional stories were carried through the centuries without any written record really. From oral tradition to later (early 1800s?) Sunday School stories and illustrations. My grandmother, as a little girl, always wondered where those various stories came from. With various finds in this century we now have the written source, in many cases, but its something I always found curious. Now if we can only find the “Q” or “Sayings” Gospel in an early written form! ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/45 "2015-04-11T07:04:42Z")
People didn’t have movies and novels to fill their imaginations, so they told tall stories, and with less education and no internet to quickly spread news across vast distances, many were inclined to believe them. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/46 "2015-04-11T09:17:26Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > What is unusual about the early Christian movement was that it rapidly grew larger and spread farther than most others, that its members were unusually devoted, and that this remained true despite generations of violent persecution by the Romans. This is what demands explanation. > > For one, Jesus’s teaching was entirely revolutionary and filled his followers with drive and energy that the other movements did not have. However, if Jesus did actually perform miracles and was resurrected and many people witnessed it, that could also help explain it. Or, you know, it was made the state church of the Roman Empire in the fourth century. :rolleyes: Once upon a time there were a million Samaritans. If things had played out differently, there might be a handful of Christians living as oddballs in the Levant along side them. It’s luck, a devotion to proselytizing, and a good story that carried Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/47 "2015-04-11T09:24:02Z")
Edit: Better said by others. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/48 "2015-04-11T11:17:32Z")
Why did they believe it ? one form of proof of their conviction was to suicide… The others then said “see those people who volunteered to be fed to the lions, they believe in this so strongly that…” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/49 "2015-04-11T17:57:53Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Why did they believe it ? one form of proof of their conviction was to suicide… The others then said “see those people who volunteered to be fed to the lions, they believe in this so strongly that…” But that includes suicides who _didn’t_ personally witness any miracles performed by Jesus, right? They believed strongly, and so died for the cause – and now yet _other_ people who never actually saw anything miraculous believe in fourth-hand hearsay, and so go to their deaths in front of yet more impressionable folks… ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/50 "2015-04-11T18:46:46Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > luck One of the underrated “what if” moments in the history of Christianity is “what if the guy who threw that spear at Julian had missed?”. The early days of Christianity as the dominant Roman religion wasn’t all smooth sailing. Julian the Apostate, nephew of Constantine and Roman Emperor from 361 to 363, had one heck of a go at reversing the Empire’s path to Christianity and return it to the pagan religion and customs of old. Then, unfortunately for him and pagans everywhere, he went on a ham-fisted military adventure in Persia. There, he had an unfortunate run-in with a pointy object, ending his reign and his reforms before either properly got going. Later, Theodosius got to do his thing instead, and the rest is history. But what if Julian had ruled into old age? Maybe the whole story would have turned out different. On the other hand, it’s also a very good bet that Christianity was a social force with enough momentum that everything would have all turned out more or less the same way it did anyway, even if Constantine hadn’t had his vision before the Milvian Bridge in the first place. Who knows for sure, really? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/51 "2015-04-11T19:11:10Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > It’s not really a fair comparison. Today, these things compete with modern science, and we live in an atmosphere of skepticism. At the time of Christ, there was no modern science, and certainly no atmosphere of skepticism. I think it’s exactly the same thing. People’s ability to be credulous hasn’t really changed that much, and I think the percentage of folks who are skeptical (of things both in and out of their world view) has gotten better, but still isn’t exactly universal. Look at the percentages of Europeans (or even Americans) who think 9/11 was a US government conspiracy and you’ll see exactly the same dynamic involved, IMHO at least. > [@](#): > > Also, moon hoaxes and UFO videos don’t usually come packaged in the same box set with the best ethical and moral teaching on the market. A couple of millennia ago, well, sometimes they sort of did. That might sound as strange as a bacon-ice cream sandwich\* to some of us, but I guess people used to like it. Not sure what this has to do with anything, to be honest. I’m making a statement more about why people believe stuff that is within their world view, regardless of whether it comes with morals or ethics attached. To me, it’s all about the ability of humans to be credulous about things that correspond to their world view and being unable to use whatever passes for a bullshit detector on stuff they have a strong belief in. The folks who think the Kennedy assassination was a US government conspiracy believe it because to them that corresponds to their world view, and so they aren’t skeptical of the narrative. The folks who lived 2000 years ago didn’t think a gods/God impregnating a human female was that far fetched because that narrative had been with them and their society for a long time. Like I said, to me it’s all the same and stems from the same source…humans being human. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/52 "2015-04-11T19:16:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Except that those closest to the so-called miracles remained remarkably unimpressed by them. The early Christians were more successful with those further away with no direct experience. How do you know this is true? > [@](#): > > Christians did have a big advantage in their doctrine. Why believe in another cult? Maybe your parents did, or the temple virgins were cute, or they had good ceremonies. Only Christianity threatened you with hell if you didn’t sign up. And this? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/53 "2015-04-11T19:16:47Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The folks who think the Kennedy assassination was a US government conspiracy believe it because to them that corresponds to their world view, and so they aren’t skeptical of the narrative. The folks who lived 2000 years ago didn’t think a gods/God impregnating a human female was that far fetched because that narrative had been with them and their society for a long time. Like I said, to me it’s all the same and stems from the same source…humans being human. If you believe in UFOs and far-fetched conspiracy theories today, you’re being silly. But you didn’t have to be silly to belive in miracles, holy men, astrology or prophets 2000 years ago. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/54 "2015-04-11T20:15:16Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Not sure what this has to do with anything, to be honest. I’m making a statement more about why people believe stuff that is within their world view, regardless of whether it comes with morals or ethics attached. I’ll just say something about this, too (even though this sort of goes against what I just posted… but hey, I’m nothing if not inconsistent): So, you’re an early Christan. Do you believe that Jesus walked on water and healed the sick? Do you believe that his mother was a virgin, and that he rose from the dead? Well, maybe you do, and maybe you don’t. Maybe you’re genre-savvy enough to recognize all that as the sort of stories that always get told about holy men. But maybe you let that slide, because other parts of the message appeal to you. Maybe the tall tales isn’t what makes you stick with your religion when the next round of persecutions come around. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/55 "2015-04-12T05:33:37Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > I’ll just say something about this, too (even though this sort of goes against what I just posted… but hey, I’m nothing if not inconsistent): > > So, you’re an early Christan. Do you believe that Jesus walked on water and healed the sick? Do you believe that his mother was a virgin, and that he rose from the dead? Well, maybe you do, and maybe you don’t. Maybe you’re genre-savvy enough to recognize all that as the sort of stories that always get told about holy men. > > But maybe you let that slide, because other parts of the message appeal to you. Maybe the tall tales isn’t what makes you stick with your religion when the next round of persecutions come around. Healed the sick? You do know how powerful the placebo effect it, right? I have no doubt at all Jesus could heal the sick, even if he was just a mortal man. Mother was a Virgin, sure why not? No real medicine, no biologists. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/56 "2015-04-12T23:01:24Z")
> [@NewRalph124c](#): > > I had read that by the time of the Council of Nicea, there was an immense amount of pseudo-gospel writings around, and that one of the objectives of the council was to examine and remove those thought to be spurious. Do many of these writings survive today? what do modern bible scholars think of them? **NewRalph124c** , who are you and what have you done with the old **Ralph124c**? I am genuinely curious. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/57 "2015-04-13T01:21:07Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **NewRalph124c** , who are you and what have you done with the old **Ralph124c**? I am genuinely curious. It’s the Second Coming (of Ralph)! (though I kinda wish he’d just incremented the number after his name to Ralph124d) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/58 "2015-04-14T18:52:12Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > **NewRalph124c** , who are you and what have you done with the old **Ralph124c**? I am genuinely curious. Seems like he devolved back into the old **Ralph124c** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753930&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753930&page=2) Glad you’re not dead! We were worried [about you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748826). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161/59 "2015-04-14T19:00:47Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Seems like he devolved back into the old **Ralph124c** : [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753930&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=753930&page=2) > > Glad you’re not dead! We were worried [about you](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=748826). Biggest re-branding disaster since NewCoke. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-anyone-believe-in-the-stories-about-jesus-from-the-start/717161.md?page=2)