# Why did Ben-Hur bomb? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 23, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702 "2016-08-23T01:04:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/141 "2016-08-28T22:26:58Z")
What’s weird is\*\* Ben-Hur\*\*'s [CinemaScore](https://www.cinemascore.com/)is A-. So the (very) few audience members who did see it, tended to actually like it, that just didn’t translate into \*more \*people going. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/142 "2016-08-28T22:31:45Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Can someone who has seen the new Ben-Hur tell me in a spoiler box, or by PM, if Messala survives the race? In the book… > > he lived as a cripple for several years, then was murdered by his girlfriend, who happened to be the daughter of Balthasar > > That would be an interesting diversion from the 1959 version. In the new movie, Messala loses a leg from the race, but survives. He & Ben-Hur forgive each other and \*literally \*ride off into the sunset together, I am not even joking. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/143 "2016-08-28T22:56:09Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Maybe it’s not about being butthurt, but more about just not being interested in seeing a biopic you know upfront will be difficult to suspend disbelief for. > > Nina Simone was memorable to many precisely because she defied conventional ideas of what celebrated black female artists should do and look like. So I totally understand why casting Saldana–who checks all the boxes when it comes to “acceptable black beauty”–would be a hard sell for Nina Simone fans. True, Nina Simone was not just black she was _black_ and the people complaining loudest were people annoyed at the notion that the filmmakers really can’t find any black actresses that might do? You need a light skinned actress you have to put dark makeup “blackface” on? Really? Is casting that hard? [India Arie: Why Zoe Saldana as Nina Simone Is “Tone-Deaf” Casting](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/india-arie-why-zoe-saldana-872960) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/144 "2016-08-28T23:18:34Z")
Both the 2016 and 1959 versions suck compared with 1925 because nobody was killed making them. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/145 "2016-08-29T00:11:01Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > I can’t think of any star whose breakout was a biopic. Late to the part on this one … but besides the two **Peremensoe** named: Gary Busey in _The Buddy Holly Story_ Lou Diamond Phillips in _La Bamba_ Heck, one could make an argument for Ben Kingsley breaking for American audiences for the first time in _Gandhi_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/146 "2016-08-29T00:43:50Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > In the new movie, > > Messala loses a leg from the race, but survives. He & Ben-Hur forgive each other and \*literally \*ride off into the sunset together, I am not even joking. How _precious_! :o ---
**Author:** ![Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ba8739/32.png) [@Backwater\_Under\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backwater_Under_Duck)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/147 "2016-08-29T00:47:33Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > In the new movie, > > Messala loses a leg from the race, but survives. He & Ben-Hur forgive each other and \*literally \*ride off into the sunset together, I am not even joking. Please tell me that they are in a Cadillac convertible when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/148 "2016-08-29T13:36:38Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How do you figure? I mean, yeah, it’s already outgrossed PLUTO NASH – but it’s also already outgrossed _other_ $100+M budget movies on that list, like THE ALAMO and MARS NEEDS MOMS; and I’d be willing to bet it soon passes HOW DO YOU KNOW. I thought the gross column was North American. _Ben-Hur_ sits at under $20M domestic and won’t make too much more. _The Alamo_ is a bit of $22 domestic and _Mars Need Moms_ is just under that. So, yeah, anyway, it will probably rank behind those under either criteria. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/149 "2016-08-29T14:32:22Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Heck, one could make an argument for Ben Kingsley breaking for American audiences for the first time in _Gandhi_. Kingsley’s an interesting choice as an example in this context - his casting is sometimes held up as objectionable, because he’s English (albeit of half-Indian descent); some wonder why no Indian actor was chosen; his use of heavy make-up (it allegedly took 8 hours to get him to look like Gandhi) is sometimes called “brownface”: > [@](#): > > Ben Kingsley putting on brown-face to play Gandhi in Gandhi, was essentially the moment I decided that I was never going to even try Hollywood. > **[Being A Person of Color Does Not Give You A Free Pass To Be Racist](https://thought.is/being-a-person-of-color-does-not-give-you-a-free-pass-to-be-racist/)** > > Lately, there has been a lot of backlash on Miley Cyrus for her appropriation of African Americans, and she rightfully deserves to be called out on it. But not everyone objected - Nehru thought Gandhi himself would have been amused by the choice: > [@](#): > > “I paid Nehru a second visit months later, and he made two observations. The first concerned the problem of finding an actor to play Gandhi. I needed a trained professional, not just a lookalike. The prime minister’s own surprising choice was Alec Guinness, which took me aback because Alec was English. > > “‘The nationality is unimportant,’ Nehru declared. ‘All that matters is that he should be very good. Besides, the idea of being portrayed by an Englishman would have made Bapu laugh a great deal.’” > **[Gandhi would have been amused at being played by a Brit, Nehru told Richard...](https://qz.com/257044/gandhi-would-have-been-amused-at-being-played-by-an-englishman-nehru-told-richard-attenborough)** > > The tributes to Richard Attenborough have been many, rich and well deserved. They bring together the many Attenboroughs, the actor that the older generation remembers for his role as Pinkie Brown in Brighton Rock (1947), my generation for the Great... I rather favour Nehru’s position: what matters to me most is that the actors are “very good”. However, their race or other aspects of their identity can be important if it somehow adds to the movie-going experience in some way, either because it’s inadvertent ironic (“Besides, the idea of being portrayed by an Englishman would have made Bapu laugh a great deal”), or because the movie-maker is making some sort of deliberate point. Whether actors of certain backgrounds are being improperly denied roles strikes me as something of concern more for actor’s guilds and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/150 "2016-08-29T14:48:50Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I thought the gross column was North American. _Ben-Hur_ sits at under $20M domestic and won’t make too much more. _The Alamo_ is a bit of $22 domestic and _Mars Need Moms_ is just under that. So, yeah, anyway, it will probably rank behind those under either criteria. I’d just like to comment that I really liked _The Alamo_. The new one, not the John Wayne epic. Didn’t see it in the theater but have the DVD. It’s pretty historically accurate for a “big” film. But I can understand that the public prefers something simpler… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/151 "2016-08-29T14:50:31Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > I thought the gross column was North American. Heh. So you thought PLUTO NASH grossed $7.1m domestic, and the sobering truth is that it only managed that _worldwide_ on a $100m budget? > [@](#): > > _Ben-Hur_ sits at under $20M domestic and won’t make too much more. _The Alamo_ is a bit of $22 domestic and _Mars Need Moms_ is just under that. So, yeah, anyway, it will probably rank behind those under either criteria. Yeah, as awful as THE ALAMO and MARS NEEDS MOMS – and PLUTO NASH – did domestically, they all made even less overseas; BEN-HUR looks like it’ll do better here, plus it hasn’t yet _begun_ to rake in Meh-I’ve-Seen-Worse numbers elsewhere, since it hasn’t yet opened in the UK or Spain or Germany or Russia or Japan. (But it _has_ already grossed more foreign money than HOW DO YOU KNOW ever did, and it’s made more domestic money in its first ten days than HDYK did in _its_ first ten days, and so it could still beat that one by either criterion too.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/152 "2016-08-29T18:08:09Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’d just like to comment that I really liked _The Alamo_. The new one, not the John Wayne epic. Didn’t see it in the theater but have the DVD. It’s pretty historically accurate for a “big” film. But I can understand that the public prefers something simpler… I agree. I particularly liked how it concentrated more on how it felt to be in the Texians’ shoes, rather than making it relatively simplistic and 90% about the final assault. And they actually ended after San Jacinto, which was a sort of historical coda on the whole thing that explained WHY the Alamo was important in the context of the rest of the war. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702/153 "2016-09-18T16:18:05Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > Looking at Wikipedia’s list of [box office bombs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_box_office_bombs) and clicking to sort on production budget, this movie will end up in 2nd place to _Pluto Nash_ for movies with $100+M budgets. Such distinguished company. Bumping because Box Office Mojo now has _Ben Hur_ (a) domestically outgrossing what _The Alamo_ did worldwide, as well as (b) outperforming a whole bunch of flops made on $100+M budgets. Including one that should’ve been obvious to me: if someone had asked me why this remake of _Ben Hur_ was a bad idea, I’d have probably said, well, the huge smash hit in the 1950s made a ton of money and won Best Picture, built as it was around a movie star like Charlton Heston earning a Best Actor win. And if someone had asked why Charlton Heston was such a lock for headlining a Biblical epic that was up for a ton of Oscars, I’d have probably said, well, _The Ten Commandments_ was a huge smash hit, right? And if someone had asked why _that_ Biblical epic didn’t win Best Picture, I’d have said it lost to _Around The World In 80 Days_. So if someone had then asked, hey, what’s an even dumber idea than a _Ben Hur_ remake, I guess I’d have said “well, an _Around The World in 80 Days_ remake.” And, sure enough: if _Ben Hur_ is at $26M domestic and $54M foreign for $80M total, you can bet that the _80 Days_ remake – the one with Jackie Chan and Steve Coogan? With everyone from Arnold Schwarzenegger to Owen and Luke Wilson? – topped out at $24M domestic and $48M foreign for a $72M total. And on a higher budget! _Ben Hur_ is a disappointment that never should’ve been made – sure. But it’s now outgrossed that _K-19_ flick Harrison Ford did, and that _Land of the Lost_ flick Will Ferrell did, and that _Windtalkers_ flick Nicolas Cage did, and _Stealth_ and _RIPD_ and so on, all made for $100M or more – and it’s fast closing in on _Ali_ and _Catwoman_ and _Final Fantasy_, likewise. Who knows where it’ll stop? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-ben-hur-bomb/763702.md?page=7)