# Why did British Food Suck? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 16, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647 "2009-05-16T15:22:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/101 "2009-05-18T10:14:39Z")
Can I clear up one niggling point here: Shepherds Pie = \*\*Lamb \*\*mince (and veggies) under a mashed potato “crust” Cottage Pie = \*\*Beef \*\*mince (and veggies) under a mashed potato “crust” That is all. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/102 "2009-05-18T10:25:05Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Can I clear up one niggling point here: > > Shepherds Pie = \*\*Lamb \*\*mince (and veggies) under a mashed potato “crust” > > Cottage Pie = \*\*Beef \*\*mince (and veggies) under a mashed potato “crust” > > That is all. The top of the mash is also supposed to be differently shaped - in wavy shapes for a shepherd’s pie (like a ploughed field), and stippled for a cottage pie (like roofs, maybe). The terrible shepherd’s pie that that poster had was almost definitely a steak and kidney pudding. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/103 "2009-05-18T10:47:22Z")
> [@ivn1188](#): > > We’re talking about the customary dishes that Brits have been cooking for a long time: Shepherd’s pie, bangers and mash, beans on toast, Yorkshire puddings, beef Wellington, ploughman’s, fish and chips, etc. None of which feature salted beef, turnips or pickled veggies. > [@](#): > > Your experience from living in Britain is worthless, honestly, because you obviously don’t know enough about food to distinguish between a national cuisine and what you ate when you were there, just like the dumbasses who visited the US and saw a lot of burger joints, and think that must be American cuisine. I know that I had Shepherd’s pie, bangers and mash, beans on toast, Yorkshire puddings, beef Wellington, ploughman’s, fish and chips and still didn’t eat turnips or salted beef or pickled veggies. I know that I ate out at good pub after good pub featuring traditional British cuisine and by doing so did not eat at places where the “trends in the high end” or the “big trends came from”, which is what you were talking about earlier. > [@](#): > > Secondly, you want to know why “that fancy schmancy cooking matters”? Try not to use quotes when you are not quoting. It’s jerkish. > [@](#): > > Because it’s a demonstration of what a dish can be at it’s best, and because national cuisine isn’t static unless your culture is dead. And this has what to do with your earlier position about where the “trends in the high end” or the “big trends came from”? You’re contradicting yourself. > [@](#): > > So I guess the answer to _your_ question is that people who are interested in capturing the essence of various cuisines and who are trying to create dishes that people love give a rat’s ass. I give a rat’s when it’s the topic at hand. I was quite the foody before children came along and made it hard. I just think that where the “trends in the high end” are coming from has jack to do with this OP ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/104 "2009-05-18T10:53:01Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > Unfortunately, the native food was at best mediocre, at worst appalling nearly everywhere we ate unless it was an Indian restaurant. We ate at a place where my wife ordered a salad and she was served a plate of iceberg lettuce and a few packets of [salad cream](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salad_cream). Were there slugs on the lettuce, and on the replacement lettuce that you got given when you sent the first plate back? If so, I think Mrs P and I ate there too. It’s pretty much traditional for food outlets aimed at tourists to be bad. It’s the same all over the world. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/105 "2009-05-18T11:11:12Z")
A large problem with British food is that everybody focuses on crap dishes. Nobody judges American cuisine by mechanically reconstituted sausage meat in a dry white roll (a “hotdog”), yet cheap food like fish and chips comes to represent all of British cuisine. There’s hundreds of regional and traditional dishes that never get mentioned. Even worse, those dishes that are mentioned are snookered by having an English name. Give a hotpot a French name and package it as a peasant dish, and everybody would be all over it :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/106 "2009-05-18T11:21:44Z")
Back in 1971 I had a terrible sandwich at JFK airport. Therefore all American food is crap. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/107 "2009-05-18T11:22:06Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > This, again, is completely untrue. I’m almost bewildered how some folks in this thread managed to _find_ these obscure places which only serve mushy peas and boiled potatoes. Go to my brother-in-law’s home, for starters. 🙂 Anyway, I’m not denying that you can find other veggies to go with whatever is the main dish, but I can’t think of many vegetables I’ve had with the traditional UK dishes that were interesting. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/108 "2009-05-18T11:33:38Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Sorry, I live here! There’s no chance I’m gonna not eat steak ever. Steak is goooooood! > > What do you perceive as the difference? I’ve eaten steak a lot in both countries (it being one of my favourite foods), and I haven’t been able to percieve a general difference except that steaks in the US tend to the larger side. > > I think a good cook/chef is a good cook/chef, and a bad one is a bad one. You get both types everywhere, and a good cook ain’t gonna go wrong with steak, really. You may well be right about the good cook/bad cook thing. Many of my disappointing steak experiences in England have been with badly cooked (usually overcooked) steak, even in good restaurants. I aslo think that American steak does tend to be more tender. And because they are larger, they are thicker and this helps to produce a good rare steak. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/109 "2009-05-18T12:06:07Z")
A quick Google does turn up recipes for shepherd’s pie that involve a pie crust. Google also turns up plenty of recipes for things called “shepherd’s pie” which can only be described as culinary abortions. Most of the recipes are American. ---
**Author:** ![mutantmoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mutantmoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mutantmoose)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/110 "2009-05-18T12:21:50Z")
The things that grow well in the UK (and Ireland) are root vegetables because there’s no strong sun like on the continent. In the northern uplands, livestock was the main thing - cows and sheep. Thus, going back a hundred years and before, all people ate was meat and vegetables. There’s no strong history of sauces (for the common folk) so things were just served plain. When you consider heavily sauced and spiced food, the main thing you taste is the sauce or the spices not the meat or the veg. Personally I think British (and Irish) food is quite unique in that it seems to be the only food in the world that comes as is. Without being drowned in other stuff. I love the taste of potatoes. It’s a subtle, earthy flavour. If you consider, for example, India - no one in India has ever tasted a potato because they always spice it before eating. I think that’s quite sad. People criticise British food for being plain without realising that that’s what makes it special and unique. It’s not a criticism. I feel sorry for people who think you have to do something to food to make it edible. British food is the purest food in the world because nothing is done to it. All other nationalities food are secondary food - not pure - because it gets added to. If Britain (and Ireland) didn’t exist then there would be nowhere in the world where you could eat a potato. Think about that - the greatest foodstuff in the world would not be available anywhere in it’s purest form. ---
**Author:** ![Mycroft\_Holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a5b964/32.png) [@Mycroft\_Holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mycroft_Holmes)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/111 "2009-05-18T12:30:48Z")
> [@Smokinjbc](#): > > I’ve never been to England, but I have to say that the Crown & Anchor here in Vegas, assuming the food is legitimately British, is one of our favorite places to eat. See, there are actually English restaurants outside of England. The English have a much better cuisine than the Dutch. Has anyone ever seen a Dutch restaurant outside of the Netherlands? Even in the Netherlands you’ll only find Indonesian, Carribean, French, Italian, Marrocan, Arab, Turkish, you-name-it restauarants. Some of the “delicious” :dubious: traditional Dutch foods are things like: [Stamppot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stamppot), [Hutspot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutspot), [Boerenkool](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boerenkool) met [Rookworst](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rookworst), and the absolutely horrid: [Bitterballen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitterballen), [Kroketten](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroket), and [Frikandellen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frikandel). The Dutch cuisine is so high class, you can get it from vending machines in every large train station. Just look for the [FEBO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEBO). Where is the vomiting smiley when I need it? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/112 "2009-05-18T12:50:07Z")
[This](http://www.godecookery.com/chaucer/chfeast2.htm) is medieval English cookery - recipes filled with grapes, dates, spices, sugar, wine, herbs. Rich sauces. Variety. Fucking paté. Totally non-suck. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/113 "2009-05-18T12:54:46Z")
The concept of British food being plain ignores the long history of thing like mustard, horseradish, chutney and pickles here. That love of strong flavours goes back years. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/114 "2009-05-18T13:13:57Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > Personally I think British (and Irish) food is quite unique in that it seems to be the only food in the world that comes as is. Without being drowned in other stuff. This, by the way, does not apply to desserts (excuse me - puddings). My co-workers regularly purchase desserts consisting of an unidentified baked good (usually a cake or crumble) in a bowl under an ocean of custard. In the same way that dry martinis are just an excuse to drink gin stylishly, British desserts are apparently an excuse to eat custard. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/115 "2009-05-18T13:38:02Z")
To all those disparaging haggis. As a child I grew up with Friday night dinner frequently being “lambs fry” and bacon. I’m still not sure what “lambs fry” is but I suspect it might be liver and the thought of it makes me squiffy. When we went to have dinner at my grandparents it was often steak and kidmey pie. The taste was delicious, it was the texture that got me and I used to swallow chunks if kidney whole so I woudn’t offend my grandmother. When I became an adult I banned offal of all kind from my diet. Then I married a Scotsman and he insisted I tried haggis and guess what? It’s soooooooooooo good. It has an awesomely rich flavour but none of the texture of offal. Seriously haggis is amazingly good and I miss it. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/116 "2009-05-18T13:44:46Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I’d dispute that. The Catholic Church didn’t try anywhere close to a “meatless diet”, as can be seen by countries that are still Catholic, from Belgium to Italy, that don’t fall back on fish for everything. There was no “artificial demand” for fish. Britain is an island and quite a small one at that, considering the population. Most large population centres sprouted up either on the coast or on major rivers. People ate fish because it was plentiful and easy to get. I’m not disputing that people ate fish instead of poultry, beef, pork and mutton on ‘meatless’ fridays and during lent, that was actually my point. It is also why I put the word meatless in quotes. Yes, Britain is an island however at no point did British cuisine become as dependent upon fishing and seafoods as other island cultures like Japan or Hawaii. Why not? Why is roast beef and lamb so identifiably British but something like salt cod you might pin more on say.. Portugal? Also, the historical record supports me, prior to the 16th century there were 800 religious institutions such as monasteries which kept large fish ponds as income producers and after it there were none and by the 18th century almost all the old medieval fish ponds had been filled in. In Shakespeare’s King Lear Kent vows 'to serve him truly that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to fear judgement… and to eat no fish." According to “Food: A Culinary History” in an effort to halt a dramatic decline in the english fishing fleet authorities sought to reimpose Saturday as ‘meatless’ day and Wednesday in 1563. In Brian Fagan’s “Fish on Friday” he finds that by 1620 only 10 percent of England’s catch of cod remains in the country, the rest is exported to catholic countries. This is not to say it is impossible to have excellent food without fish and seafood but it does further limit your possibilities in an already limited climate. ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/117 "2009-05-18T13:45:39Z")
Having married into a family of Scottish ancestry, I’ve been to a fair few dinners where the haggis has been piped in. I love it! It’s just like a delicious stuffing to eat with your roast meat. Don’t understand the weirdness people have about it at all. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/118 "2009-05-18T14:24:41Z")
> [@lokij](#): > > I’m not disputing that people ate fish instead of poultry, beef, pork and mutton on ‘meatless’ fridays and during lent, that was actually my point. So when you said “meatless” you really meant “fish on Fridays and during Lent”. That’s in no way even remotely close to “meatless”, quotes or no quotes. The point remains that countries that stayed Catholic don’t always have an obsession with fish. Italy is a good example. Yes, they eat fish, but you ask _anyone_ to name an Italian dish and I’d put money on them not saying one with fish in it. > [@lokij](#): > > Why is roast beef and lamb so identifiably British but something like salt cod you might pin more on say.. Portugal? Yes you’re right. There are no fish dishes so identifiably British … oh. Hang on a minute. > [@lokij](#): > > Also, the historical record supports me, prior to the 16th century there were 800 religious institutions such as monasteries which kept large fish ponds as income producers and after it there were none and by the 18th century almost all the old medieval fish ponds had been filled in. There are also these things called “the sea” and “rivers”. I’m from the middle of England. There’s a place near where I grew up called “Meriden” that in ancient times they thought was the exact centre of the country. Turns out they weren’t far wrong (IIRC it is a bit nearer Leicester). Even here there are rivers (our water authority is called Severn Trent, named after the two major rivers in the area) and canals that can either provide you with fish or transport to coastal areas. Also, the late eighteenth century saw the Industrial Revolution and trains that could bring fish from the coast to the few areas that didn’t have easy access to the coast or rivers. Not to mention the canals throughout the country. > [@lokij](#): > > In Shakespeare’s King Lear Kent vows 'to serve him truly that will put me in trust, to love him that is honest, to fear judgement… and to eat no fish." According to “Food: A Culinary History” in an effort to halt a dramatic decline in the english fishing fleet authorities sought to reimpose Saturday as ‘meatless’ day and Wednesday in 1563. In Brian Fagan’s “Fish on Friday” he finds that by 1620 only 10 percent of England’s catch of cod remains in the country, the rest is exported to catholic countries. This is not to say it is impossible to have excellent food without fish and seafood but it does further limit your possibilities in an already limited climate. Perhaps, just perhaps, they were catching lots and lots of cod and only needed that much? I mean come on, three of the most mentioned foodstuffs in this thread have been fish and chips, eels and kippers, yet we apparently don’t eat fish. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/119 "2009-05-18T14:35:11Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > British food is the purest food in the world because nothing is done to it. All other nationalities food are secondary food - not pure - because it gets added to. If Britain (and Ireland) didn’t exist then there would be nowhere in the world where you could eat a potato. Think about that - the greatest foodstuff in the world would not be available anywhere in it’s purest form. Woah, I think you’re overstating your case a bit there. As the French food writer Curnonsky wrote: “Good cooking is when things taste of what they are.” This is a founding principle of much cuisine the world over. There are lots and lots of places that eat potatoes simply. I don’t think you can really single out British cooking for its simple respect of ingredients. I’m a little biased because of where I live, but, come on, you don’t get much purer than _sashimi_. Again, just speaking of the stereotype, but when foreigners say that British food is bland, it’s meant in the sense that everything was boiled to death. You know, the joke about the Scottish chef: “I can do it, but it’ll take me six hours to boil the flavour out.” (Incidently, Scotland is notable because its cuisine has probably one of the worst reputation and yet everyone I know who’s been there recently raved about the food.) ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647/120 "2009-05-18T14:46:07Z")
> [@jovan](#): > > Again, just speaking of the stereotype, but when foreigners say that British food is bland, it’s meant in the sense that everything was boiled to death. You know, the joke about the Scottish chef: “I can do it, but it’ll take me six hours to boil the flavour out.” But that’s just it. Little is actually boiled. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-british-food-suck/496647.md?page=7)