There ain’t many folk in the UK who’d be offended by that statement.
I’m not disputing that eating of fish declined, I am disputing the level that it decreased and the reasons given.
Regarding your cite about the 90s, please see my points regarding fishing quotas and whatnot. Not to mention declining stocks. As an example, around 1990, when I started working in a chippie, the standard fish was cod. We also served haddock and plaice, but those were to be ordered on entry as we wouldn’t have any pre-cooked. They also cost more. Now if you go to chippies in that region (I have to add “that region” as different regions serve different fish. For example until I moved to London I had never encountered dogfish/“rock salmon” before) the standard fish is haddock, with plaice and cod being more expensive and made to order. This is purely down to declining fish stocks pushing the price upwards. This has happened in the past two decades. Fish in a chippie is way more expensive than it used to be.
Not sure if I’ve read this right but “Toad in the Hole” has nothing to do with runny egg! Toad in the Hole is English sausages cooked in a Yorkshire Pudding batter. Personally I like Jamie Oliver’s version.
The stats I gave for fish consumption were just over 10 years old and as I said the trend in Britain DESPITE plunging fish stocks and rising prices has been an overall increase in the consumption of fish and seafood. This has been going on since about 1980. My point… my original point, was that the Reformation upset established eating habits and eradicated a long tradition of cooking that had evolved essentially since the Norman invasion. Puritan values displaced long standing traditions in many areas of life, including cooking. I pointed to the decline in consumption of fish and seafood as a noteworthy example because it illustrates the kinds of social changes I’m discussing and exacerbates the already more limited local ingredient options available in the British Isles. By the time dining trends moved away from puritan values the dishes that were considered 'British" had changed, others that might have persisted in Britain and evolved had England stayed a Catholic nation were re-imported but identified as 'French".
The ten years ago stats were supposed to show that other countries, that fish in different waters and traditionally eat different fish, were eating far more fish than Brits.
Regarding the Puritans, I think it is a gross misrepresentation of what went on during the Reformation. The Puritans never had the stranglehold over the country necessary to do what you claim they did. Indeed that’s why they upped sticks and moved to the new world, so they could continue their intolerance there.
Indeed, although Wikipedia is often frowned upon around here, if you read the Wikipedia entry for the English Reformation The Puritans are but a mere footnote, a single paragraph in the penultimate section of the article.
Even better is the page of the Scottish Reformation. There is not a single mention of Puritans there:
In the “dubious link” category, former (or dormant) Doper curly chick has recently got herself a place on the pie tasting panel for Hollands Pies. Not a bad gig, if you ask me.
This is from a primary school, but it’s a good short summary of what traditional foods are still eaten here (it misses only a couple; it also includes a description of toad in the hole). Modern English cuisine in terms of either what people actually eat, is more varied: lots of pasta (really, tons of this), pizza, curries, sandwiches, burgers and chips, jacket potatoes and stir-fries. Modern cuisine in terms of what contestants make on Masterchef includes pretty much every type of food imaginable and many fusion foods like curried shepherd’s pie.
They’re a staple of medieval archaeological sites, big piles of the flaky white things, easy to dig through. Irrc something bad happened to the oyster beds or we’d still be eating them today.
Probably the sanme bad thing that happened to the oyster beds in New York harbor: pollution and overfishing.
There’s some movement to restore the NYC oyster beds though.
Other posters have mentioned turnips as part of a roast dinner. Did you miss the Branston pickle on your ploughman’s? And corned beef is hardly rare in English cuisine, as alluded to by several posters.
Good for you, you’re still completely missing my point. That being not “what people eat in Britain today”, but “this is the (outdated) global perception (referred to by “English cuisine”) of what people ate in Britain before the relatively recent developments in international commerce and cross-cultural cooking that have considerably changed the national diet, the parameters of which have been studied and defined by food scholars who are not Aussie rules football moms who used to be foodies and ate at some pubs in London once but does include the traditional, historical heritage of dishes invented in England and passed down through the generations based on the readily available ingredients.”
It’s really fine with me if you disagree about what exactly defines traditional British/English cuisine, but you aren’t doing that, you’re just redefining “national cuisine” to mean “what people (especially I) eat in that country”. And you’re wrong to do so.
In the NW of Merrie England it’s Hollands or nuffink matey.
Pukka pies are sold in some lower class chippies;)
I believe we may have to fight over this. To the death. With pies.
Here’s *your *list again: Shepherd’s pie, bangers and mash, beans on toast, Yorkshire puddings, beef Wellington, ploughman’s, fish and chips, etc. Try as you might, there is no missing the fact that you are now scrabbling to find some way to justify the suggestion that pickled veggies and turnips are a major feature, as you suggested earlier.
Remind me again how “trends in the high end” or where the “big trends came from” fits into your point. I’ve lost track. That was, if you refer back, what I initially pulled you up about. You’re attempting to segue into some other point now that you’ve realised your initial post was a crock, but some of us remember.
Wait, I’m lost. Who is the Aussie rules football mom who used to be a foodie and ate at some pubs in London once and where do they fit into this?
I’d never eaten a turnip (outside of Branston’s Pickle) until I moved to Sweden.
You know what? They’re quite tasty. Mix up a few root vegetables, sprinkle some oil over them with a few herbs and spices of your choosing and roast in the oven. FANTASTIC. Home-delivered organic vegetable boxes have revolutionised my diet and probably made it a metric arseload healthier.
You’re mistaking “is available in shops” for “English cuisine”.
Twinkies are available in American shops. Does that make them a staple of American cuisine?
As for turnips… well, as you say, in Branston’s pickle only. Cheap sandwich fodder, mainly, much like peanut butter. Which, again, has no relation to cuisine.
Not a mention of carrots and swedes, mashed together with salt, pepper and butter.
Or roasted parsnips
Deebloodylishus
Yeah, well we’ve been informed that English people eat cold canned tomatoes, so I’m taking assertions in this thread with a pinch of salt, as it were. I haven’t seen corned beef since I was a child 25 years ago, and then it was in some weird concoction my Kiwi dad made up. It most certainly is rare. It’s about as culturally relevant as Spam.
Hah! Yep. Some of the claims in this thread are hilarious. So, to get things straight, we’ve been told by people who know better than we, the people doing the actual eating, do that we:
- Eat turnips a lot
- Eat cold canned tomatoes
- Shepherds pie has a nasty crust
- Don’t eat fish
- Consider a salad to be half an iceberg lettuce with a sachet of salad cream
- Boil meat
- Boil everything else
- Consider mushy peas to be a staple diet item
Did I miss anything? 
Those do, indeed, look delicious. OK, maybe not the Huspot. But everything else.
Although we don’t eat turnips as such, we do eat a close relative, namely the swede or rutabaga. This is an essential part of a haggis dinner where it is known as “neeps” north of the border. We occasionally eat swede, usually mixed with mashed potato.