# Why did Bush say, "We're not into nation building"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 6, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379 "2006-07-06T15:47:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/1 "2006-07-06T15:47:17Z")
It may have been Rumsfeld and/or Cheney who actually articulated this sentiment, but it seems to fly in the face of the central theme of Bush’s foreign policy and the neocon agenda of spreading democracy around the world. So what excactly were they thinking? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/2 "2006-07-06T15:49:43Z")
Maybe he was factoring in the nation destroying? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/3 "2006-07-06T15:52:12Z")
That if Clinton did it, it must be bad. You know, the driving spirit behind Bush’s decisionmaking in most matters. There is still a strong strain of thought in hard-right circles that we had no business going into Yugoslavia and ending the genocide there. The strong reaction to Clinton’s doing it anyway let Bush use it as a campaign item, confirming to the isolationists that he was on their side. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/4 "2006-07-06T16:07:06Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] So what excactly were they thinking? [/QUOTE] Reality just got in the way of their ideology. It’s just that simple. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/5 "2006-07-06T16:08:35Z")
When did Bush (or Cheney or Rumsfeld) say that? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/6 "2006-07-06T16:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] When did Bush (or Cheney or Rumsfeld) say that? [/QUOTE] When campaigning IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/7 "2006-07-06T16:16:33Z")
Bush said, “we’re not in the business of nation building.” As close as I can remember. It was in regard to Afghanistan, and he said it right after the invasion. Here’s a ref to it: [http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/29/cst.01.html](http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0109/29/cst.01.html) He was trying to make the point that we shouldn’t worry about his military project becoming a morass (like Vietnam), because he was going to have a clear military objective, limit the scope, and not get entrenched. Obviously, he was idiotic, and, reflective of many of his administration’s strategies, the policy was announced before it had been thought through. He was eating his words within a month. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/8 "2006-07-06T16:16:39Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] When campaigning IIRC. [/QUOTE] In 2000, or 2004? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/9 "2006-07-06T16:18:07Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] It may have been Rumsfeld and/or Cheney who actually articulated this sentiment, but it seems to fly in the face of the central theme of Bush’s foreign policy and the neocon agenda of spreading democracy around the world. [/QUOTE] The neocon assumption seems to be, “nation-building” is unnecessary; when you knock out the evil bad naughty dictator, democracy just **happens.** ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/10 "2006-07-06T16:18:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] In 2000, or 2004? [/QUOTE] 2000 IIRC; my memory’s vague on that however. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/11 "2006-07-06T16:25:16Z")
It was in one of the [debates](http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000a.html) with Gore in 2000. He didn’t exaclty say “we’re not into nation building”, but something close (empahasis added): > [@](#): > > MODERATOR: New question. How would you go about as president deciding when it was in the national interest to use U.S. force, generally? > > BUSH: Well, if it’s in our vital national interest, and that means whether our territory is threatened or people could be harmed, whether or not the alliances are – our defense alliances are threatened, whether or not our friends in the Middle East are threatened. That would be a time to seriously consider the use of force. Secondly, whether or not the mission was clear. Whether or not it was a clear understanding as to what the mission would be. Thirdly, whether or not we were prepared and trained to win. Whether or not our forces were of high morale and high standing and well-equipped. And finally, whether or not there was an exit strategy. I would take the use of force very seriously. I would be guarded in my approach. I don’t think we can be all things to all people in the world. I think we’ve got to be very careful when we commit our troops. The vice president and I have a disagreement about the use of troops. He believes in nation building. I would be very careful about using our troops as nation builders. I believe the role of the military is to fight and win war and therefore prevent war from happening in the first place. So I would take my responsibility seriously. And it starts with making sure we rebuild our military power. Morale in today’s military is too low. We’re having trouble meeting recruiting goals. We met the goals this year, but in the previous years we have not met recruiting goals. Some of our troops are not well-equipped. I believe we’re overextended in too many places. And therefore I want to rebuild the military power. It starts with a billion dollar pay raise for the men and women who wear the uniform. A billion dollars more than the president recently signed into law. It’s to make sure our troops are well-housed and well-equipped. Bonus plans to keep some of our high-skilled folks in the services and a commander in chief that sets the mission to fight and win war and prevent war from happening in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/12 "2006-07-06T16:29:15Z")
**John** , he’d said many similar things during the campaign, but he said it pretty much word for word talking about invading Afghanistan. Looking for the exact quote still. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/13 "2006-07-06T16:35:44Z")
Here: > [@](#): > > [When the United States began bombing Afghanistan, many here and abroad asked, “What happens after the war?” “We’re not into nation building,” Bush told reporters within days after bombing began. “We’re into justice.”](http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ksgpress/bulletin/spring2002/features/nation_building.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/14 "2006-07-06T16:42:22Z")
OK. I didn’t remember seeing that and assumed we were talking about the debate. I think Bush is right-- we’re not into nation building. Witness the mess that Iraq is right now. Afghanistan might be a little better, but it’s got a long ways to go. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/15 "2006-07-06T17:17:42Z")
Well if he said it in 2000, that is before 9-11-01. And I would still agree with his statment, we are not into nation building, we are in the war against Islamic fundementalism, the act of removing from power and bringing to trail Sadam Husain and creating a democracy in the M.E. is just a side effect. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/16 "2006-07-06T17:25:43Z")
> [@](#): > > we are not into nation building, we are in the war against Islamic fundementalism Funny, that. Islamic fundamentalists were never a threat to control Iraq until the US came in. > [@](#): > > act of removing from power and bringing to trail Sadam Husain Is this trial worth the cost? > [@](#): > > creating a democracy in the M.E. is just a side effect. A side effect yet to happen, if ever. I can’t quote an exact date, but I seem to recall Bush stating repeatedly that he was not into nation building. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/17 "2006-07-06T17:37:32Z")
[QUOTE=kanicbird] we are in the war against Islamic fundementalism, the act of removing from power and bringing to trail Sadam Husain and creating a democracy in the M.E. is just a side effect. [/QUOTE] That is not a side effect, it is a side track. Hussein had nothing to do with Islamic Fundamentalism, so an attack on Iraq was a (costly) distraction from the main war. ---
**Author:** ![Malodorous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47774/32.png) [@Malodorous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malodorous)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/18 "2006-07-06T17:57:20Z")
> [@](#): > > we are in the war against Islamic fundementalism Yea, Saddam was a bad person, but he was far worse to the followers Islamic fundementalists then the US will ever be. If our real intentions in Iraq were to hurt the fundementalists, we should’ve just sent Saddam a billion dollars worth of weapons and he probably would’ve finished them off in his own country and then tried to take out the Mullahs in Iran. I don’t think even Bush has tried to justify the Iraq war by saying it was part of a war against Islamic fundementalism. Bush put forward his opposition to nation building as one of the key differences between his and Gore’s stances on National Security back in 2000. IIRC, one of the Republican arguments was that Clinton had “worn down” the US army by fighting non-essential wars in Yugoslavia. Bush also was still tied to his fathers legacy, under whose administration the Powell Doctorine had been formed to justify not persuing the destruction of the Iraqi regime after the first Gulf War. Honestly its strange that Bush seemed to precieve the dangers of open ended occupations in 2000, yet was still caught so flat footed when Iraq slid from bad to worse. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/19 "2006-07-06T18:36:40Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] That is not a side effect, it is a side track. Hussein had nothing to do with Islamic Fundamentalism, so an attack on Iraq was a (costly) distraction from the main war. [/QUOTE] To be fair, he listed removing SH form power as a separate item from fighting against Islamic fundamentalism. But I agree that any attempt to link the two is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379/20 "2006-07-06T18:37:15Z")
The quote people are thinking of is probably the one mocked to such good effect in this Daily Show clip: [Bush vs. Bush](http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=12814). John Stewart “moderates” a debate between President Bush and Governor Bush about whether we should be engaged in nation-building in Iraq. Unfortunately, the Daily Show doesn’t indicate where the various quotes come from, but at time index 2:36 of the clip, we hear the following. It looks like it comes from one of the 2000 debates. > [@](#): > > JOHN STEWART: Mister President, is the idea to just build a new country that we like better? > > PRESIDENT BUSH: We will tear down the apparatus of terror, and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free. > > GOVERNOR BUSH: **I don’t think our troops oughta be used for what’s called “nation building”.** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-bush-say-were-not-into-nation-building/363379.md?page=2)