# WHY Did Chinese Civilization Decline? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 16, 2004, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680 "2004-06-16T16:30:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/21 "2004-06-18T02:39:08Z")
Err…gold was _undervalued_ by the Tokugawa Bakufu, not overvalued. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/22 "2004-06-18T02:48:13Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > peasant militancy largely and long since beaten into the dust by centuries of tight central absolutism and a concentration of military resources in a socially seperate military caste. You know thinking about this, this is really completely wrong. Japanese protests increased steadily in the second half of the Tokugawa era. The difference was they were mostly brief outbursts of protest rather than sustained rebellions, as such were more easily dispersed and did not end up co-opting the elites until the end. Mostly they were tax protests as Tokugawa finances eroded or after famines. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/23 "2004-06-18T17:36:07Z")
Very interesting analysis in this thread. Should it be moved to the General Questions forum? What about Korea? From my memory, it also had strong isolationist policies, but was mostly ignored by the West. I know there were powerplays among China, Japan, and Russia for influence in Korea. I’m curious as to how Korea ultimately maintained its independence from China, unlike other countries in the Chinese sphere of influence (Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, Xinjiang). ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2004, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/24 "2004-06-18T18:46:37Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > What about Korea? From my memory, it also had strong isolationist policies, but was mostly ignored by the West. . From the 1870s onward, Korea was more and more dominated by Japan, until it was finally annexed by Japan after the Russo-Japanese War. Earlier than that (14th century onward), Korea was pretty much under Chinese control, and in the 1600s, it became a vassal of China. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/25 "2004-06-19T13:49:24Z")
She was the last dowager empress of China, and from what I read, she liked things the way they were. During the so-called “Boxer Rebellion”, she commanded the Imperial Army to fight with the Boxers…and these troops were equipped with CROSSBOWS! They were no match for the Western Armies…why did this happen? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/26 "2004-06-19T14:53:35Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > She was the last dowager empress of China, and from what I read, she liked things the way they were. During the so-called “Boxer Rebellion”, she commanded the Imperial Army to fight with the Boxers…and these troops were equipped with CROSSBOWS! They were no match for the Western Armies…why did this happen? Well, you’ve answered your own question. Tzu Hsi liked things the way they were. The Imperial Army fought the Western troops with crossbows because they **had** crossbows. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680/27 "2004-06-19T14:55:18Z")
In answer to the OP: Chinese civilization declined because of the debilitating effects of putting MSG in the food. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-chinese-civilization-decline/250680.md?page=1)