# "Why Did Crowd Flee Shanghai Subway After Foreigner Fainted? "
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 3, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380 "2014-09-03T16:55:36Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/1 "2014-09-03T16:55:36Z")
This might belong in the Pit… or have to get moved there.
I heard this story on NPR yesterday and it disturbed me mightily.
> [@](#):
>
> One Saturday night this summer, a foreigner fainted and fell to the floor of a Shanghai subway car.
>
> The passengers around him scattered. Not a single person tried to help.
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> …The rest of the story is [here](http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2014/09/01/344033379/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted), including a transcript, if you aren’t in a position to listen.
That was disturbing enough, but the following really left me shaking and speechless (from the transcript):
> [@](#):
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> The most infamous recent case where people declined to help someone in need occurred in South China in 2011. A small van ran over a toddler known as “Little Yueyue.” Video footage showed 17 people passed by the injured 2-year-old lying in the road. The 18th person, a trash recycler, pulled the child toward the curb and then went for help.
Comments?
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### Author:  [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/2 "2014-09-03T17:24:47Z")
The NPR page has some good possible explanations. Both the “What’s happened in the past” scam, and people can be distrustful of those they don’t know.
> [@](#):
>
> Yan says in traditional, agrarian society, Chinese sharply divided people into two categories: those they knew and those they didn’t.
> “A person might treat other people in the person’s social group very, very nicely,” he says. “But turn around, when facing to a stranger, and [a person might] tend to be very suspicious. And whenever possible, might take advantage of that stranger.”
The [Bystander Effect](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect)could also be a part of it. If there’s a group of people, it’s harder for one person to step up and take charge and help, because everyone is hoping/expecting someone else to do that.
Also, I can’t watch the video right now, but did the crowd in the subway see what happened? If I was in a subway and everyone starting fleeing, I probably would too even if I didn’t know why everyone was fleeing.
I’ve heard about the “Little Yueyue” incident before. Looking on [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Wang_Yue), it mentions this:
> [@](#):
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> Previously, there have been incidents in China, such as the Peng Yu incident in 2006,[12][13] where Good Samaritans who helped people injured in accidents were accused of having injured the victim themselves. Some commentators have explained that this may have caused people to fear getting in trouble for doing the right thing, thus failing to help.[2]
So it sounds like a similar thing to me: fear of it being a scam, and the bystander effect.
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### Author:  [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/3 "2014-09-03T17:35:40Z")
> [@](#):
>
> a foreigner fainted and fell to the floor
Nice amphibrachic alliteration!
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#):
>
> So it sounds like a similar thing to me: fear of it being a scam, and the bystander effect.
Other possible WAG’s (mentioned in the linked article): If I saw someone collapse in public like that, it might at least cross my mind to wonder (1) if they had been attacked and their assailant was still around, or (2) if they had some deadly communicable disease. Either one of which could make it dangerous to remain too close.
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### Author:  [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/4 "2014-09-03T17:53:28Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#):
>
> Nice amphibrachic alliteration!
>
> Other possible WAG’s (mentioned in the linked article): If I saw someone collapse in public like that, it might at least cross my mind to wonder (1) if they had been attacked and their assailant was still around, or (2) if they had some deadly communicable disease. Either one of which could make it dangerous to remain too close.
That was my first thought when I read the title - “Fear of Poison Gas Clears Subway!”
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/5 "2014-09-03T19:10:29Z")
From the thread about “Little Yueyue”:
> [@China is one f\*cked up society](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-is-one-f-cked-up-society/599782/3):
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> This is all too common. This is the main reason I don’t want to live in Communist China
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> Part of it is due to the assumption in Chinese courts that the person who helps [is responsible for the accident](http://www.globaltimes.cn/opinion/commentary/2010-11/596437.html).
>
> Another reason is Chinese sort the world into two sharply dimarcated categories. 自己人(Our people, ie. family and close friends) and 外人 (outsiders, ala everyone else.) Chinese care more about the people close to them, thus they have less energy for outsiders.
> [@China is one f\*cked up society](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/china-is-one-f-cked-up-society/599782/86):
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> I have been living and working in China for several years.
>
> Before I first went to China I had to have surgery inside my throat while I was still in America.
> When I first arrived in China I had to go to the local hospital for a physical and blood tests, as do all foreigners in China on a work visa.
>
> While I was at the hospital I sought out the head of the ENT department, introduced myself, and since he spoke English I explained the surgery that I has recently had and told him I would return to see him for a follow up visit.
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> A few nights later a blood vessel in my throat hemorrhaged and was bleeding into my lungs and I was coughing up a large quantity of blood. A foreign co-worker rushed me to the same hospital and I was quickly surrounded by 8 doctors including the head of the ENT department.
> The doctors stood in a group about 15 feet away from me and refused to go near me.
>
> I was sitting on the examination table crying and begging them to help me.
> The foreign co-worker was also begging them to help me.
> My Chinese boss stood with the doctors and said nothing.
> Eventually I passed out from a lack of blood.
>
> While I was passed out one of the nurses was sent to take a blood sample from me.
> My blood was tested for AIDS, and of course I do not have AIDS.
> The same hospital had tested me just a few days prior for AIDS as a requirement for my work visa.
>
> Only when the blood test came back negative would the doctors approach me and take me into the operating room to go inside my throat to cauterize and stop the bleeding.
>
> So, I am still in China, but I have no problem believing that accident victims can and will be ignored or watched, and not helped, due to fear and ignorance.
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/6 "2014-09-03T21:17:16Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#):
>
> From the thread about “Little Yueyue”:
Thanks for linking to that thread. All I can say is “holy crap.”
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### Author:  [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/7 "2014-09-03T23:24:21Z")
I think of it like this.
In the US, we feel a sort of general low level responsibility toward everyone. We help old ladies cross the street and all that. But we feel deep responsibility towards nobody (except minor children). Grandma getting old? In a home, visit every two weeks for an hour. Brother getting a bad case of depression? Send him a “cheer up soon” card. Adult daughter out of money? Give her some job hunting advice. We do treat our family special, but most of is have some real limits to that. This is enshrined in our laws-- we have Good Samaritan laws to encourage us to help strangers, and relatively few laws making us responsible for adult family members.
In China, you have a deep responsibility to a smaller number of people. Family is first, and has no real limits. You are expected to shelter family members who need a place to live, lend and give money freely, and sacrifice your own priorities and quality of life if necessary. But there are also other important social groups. The concept of classmates is a formal, important one that plays a major social role. The old Communist work units still organize social events-- even things like movie tickets or weekend trips-- and is a bug deal to many people. All these come with big obligations.
But the flip side of that is people feel very little responsibility towards strangers. Indeed, helping strangers at the expense of your family is considered immoral. How can you spend resources on strangers when you have real obligations to family? How could you give a job to a stranger when your brother needs one?
And this is enshrined in law. People are legally required to provide for elderly family members. And when helping strangers, a concept of “responsibly” can become attached to them that can make them legally and financially responsible for the outcome. With the way social systems are organized, the idea of something not having a responsible party doesn’t make sense. Everyone is surely enmeshed in some kind of group.
Both systems have their drawbacks and their moments of horror (how about all those elderly folks who die when there is a heat wave?). I think moderation is really the only way to go. And it’s worth noting that things are changing in China. The national response to the Sichuan Earthquake was a huge moment. And the idea of volunteering is slowly losing it’s Maoist era connotation of punishment.
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### Author:  [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/8 "2014-09-04T00:51:37Z")
Part of me is all “HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT?!” But then another part of me feels like it’s possible that same scene could happen here in the US, but it just hasn’t been captured on camera.
And then yet another part of me is wondering about all the bad things that happen here which are only perceptible to outsiders.
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### Author:  [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2014, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/9 "2014-09-04T01:22:33Z")
This reminded me of a story a few years ago in New York, had to go searching for it and yep, [this homeless man died while people ignored him.](http://nypost.com/2010/04/24/stabbed-hero-dies-as-more-than-20-people-stroll-past-him/)
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### Author:  [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)
#### Post date: [September 4, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-crowd-flee-shanghai-subway-after-foreigner-fainted/697380/10 "2014-09-04T03:14:40Z")
Thanks for that analysis, **even sven**. Makes sense.