# Why did David Niven never become Sir David? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 13, 2014, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252 "2014-10-13T23:43:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/21 "2014-10-19T14:03:24Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > One of the many reasons I like David Bowie is that unlike McCartney, Jagger, Elton John _et al_ he turned down a knighthood, mostly because he felt that it didn’t really fit with being David Bowie. _“I would never have any intention of accepting anything like that,”_ he said; _“I seriously don’t know what it’s for.”_ I can’t exactly argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/22 "2014-10-19T22:05:29Z")
While the Thatcher story is at least somewhat plausible, there is something of a surrounding context. For one can distinguish three categories of acting knighthoods within Niven’s lifetime: [ul]The theatrical knights. A long-established category of men and women who’d excelled themselves on the West End stage, while often becoming more famous on film. The Guilguids and Oliviers, for example. By this point, a somewhat substantial category, but not one Niven ever quite fitted. He did do stints as a star on the London stage, but they weren’t quite that significant.[/ul] [ul]The stalwarts of the British film industry. The likes of John Mills and Dirk Bogarde got knighted by slogging their way through post-war British classics, and quite rightly so. They, and others, certainly did the occasional Hollywood and international films, which bumped up their prestige, but they still seemed quintessentially British. [/ul] [ul]The really big British film names. Hitchcock and Chaplin. And pretty much no-one else. The guys who went to Hollywood and made it huge. The off-scale names in the history of cinema. Perhaps belatedly, they got knighthoods. Niven was never in this league.[/ul] While they never needed to go to Hollywood, Powell/Pressburger and Lean are the usual names to add to the latter pair. Only one of that trio got a knighthood. Amongst actors, the really huge case would seem to be Cary Grant, who never got so honoured. Simply on the basis of his career, surely the far more obvious candidate? Granted, there are borderline issues. Was Richard Burton the first category or the second? Indeed, by the time he got the knighthood (1970), he was surely primarily regarded as a Hollywood star, albeit one trailing a Welsh and West End pedigree. So the issue really boils down to the middle category. Sir Anthony Quayle seems the most plausible parallel. Why did he get it and not Niven? The wider thing to realise is that showbiz knighthoods are really very rare until the 1960s. Lots of people who would now get one, never did. Even Liz Taylor - who one might regard as the classic Brit in Hollywood - didn’t get made a Dame until 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/23 "2014-10-19T22:39:58Z")
Chaplin’s knighthood was controversial at the time, due to his not having any discernible connection with England for many years and his political activities in the 1950s (\*Punch \*magazine quipped at the time that Prime Minister Harold Wilson had mistakenly signed the list of people who were _never_ to be knighted, which was why P.G. Wodehouse, Chaplin and others had got in) ---
**Author:** ![marktaha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5ac83/32.png) [@marktaha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marktaha)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/24 "2019-05-07T11:08:24Z")
Burton never knighted but should have been.So should Niven, James Mason, Ronald Colman, George Arliss, Stan Laurel, Jack Hawkins. Chaplin deserved a peerage. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/25 "2019-05-07T12:41:49Z")
“Say your Goddamn pronouns!” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/26 "2019-05-07T13:01:58Z")
According to IMDb, Alec Guiness received the script for _Star Wars_ while he was filming _Murder by Death_ and would read it between takes. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/27 "2019-05-07T15:09:46Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > According to IMDb, Alec Guiness received the script for _Star Wars_ while he was filming _Murder by Death_ and would read it between takes. “Oh, goody-goody-gumdrops, another film that I’ll never be remembered for.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/28 "2019-05-07T16:52:13Z")
What’s the bigger film; the film or the film that follows it? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/29 "2019-05-08T02:55:20Z")
I realize that this is nitpicking a 4.5 year old OP, but Peter Sellers was not a Sir. He had a CBE, which does not come with a title. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2019, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/30 "2019-05-08T09:42:00Z")
Part of the path for getting honours is doing public charity work. Maybe Niven turned down honours: maybe it was because he was a tax exile: maybe he just didn’t do enough public charity work. ---
**Author:** ![TPenderel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@TPenderel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TPenderel)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2021, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/31 "2021-06-26T06:52:10Z")
In 1960, Niven moved to Château-d’Œx near Gstaad in Switerland for financial reasons, living near expatriate friends that included Deborah Kerr, Peter Ustinov, and Noël Coward. It is erroneously believed by some that Niven’s choice to become a tax exile in Switzerland may have been one of the reasons why he never received a British honour; this is belied, at least, by the reality that Kerr, Ustinov, and Coward were all so honoured. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/32 "2021-06-27T01:01:20Z")
Welcome aboard, **TPenderel!** I was scrolling through Cafe Society and saw the thread title. “Oh, I’d like to know that, too.” Ooops! ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/33 "2021-06-27T06:07:02Z")
There are also people who are offerred high honours who refuse them for philosophical reasons. It is widely accepted that playwright Alan Bennett was offered a knighthood but turned it down. I cannot imagine that Stephen Fry has not had a similar offer. Both Bennett and Fry are left wing, and may object to awards like that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/34 "2021-06-27T08:35:33Z")
I’m sticking to him bopping Princess Margaret in every room of the palace as a sure way to piss off Good Queen Bess. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2021, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252/35 "2021-06-27T16:12:58Z")
I thought it was because Ringworld is unstable, and the Queen is a real stickler for things like that… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-david-niven-never-become-sir-david/701252.md?page=1)