# Why did Guinan have a special meaning to Picard? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 25, 2015, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961 "2015-03-25T19:13:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/21 "2015-03-26T04:37:21Z")
> [@Corner\_Case](#): > > She made sure to encounter him during his growing up and learned more about him. He had adventures in time and encountered her when she was younger and growing up. These would draw them closer that mere friends and family. An interesting take on knowing each other their whole lives. Another possibility, in keeping with something we know Guinan can do, is that they were stuck in a time loop together. She could sense the loop and eventually found a way to get Picard to perceive it as well. They worked together for _indeterminately long time_ to find a way out of the loop. Over time, they went through practically every variation a relationship could have. They loved, they hated, they forgave. They drove each other mad, and nursed each other back to sanity. But no matter what, they shared it, because there was no one else. In the end, they had shared so much that they were practically one person; their experience together outweighed the rest of their lives outside. Then, with a final change to the timeline, they escaped…and they forgot. Almost. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/22 "2015-03-26T07:58:56Z")
Ignoring their possible backstory, she means a lot to Picard because she’s outside the chain of command and can relate to him as a peer, socially. To a lesser degree, so do Beverly and Troi. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/23 "2015-03-26T09:17:50Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > In-universe, it could have been about a number of things. > > But in production terms, it was due to Whoopi Goldberg being a largish star at the time she was cast. It would be natural for her to be more willing to take a part that is Special and Important in that way (being unusually close to the show’s main character). Goldberg had hoped to be cast as Dr. Crusher’s replacement after Gates McFadden had left the show, but the producers didn’t think she was suitable for the role and cast Diana Muldaur instead. So she said she didn’t care what her role was, even it was just sweeping floors in the background. This inspired the producers to cast her as a bartender and her character was named after a Prohibition-era bartender named Texas Guinan. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/24 "2015-03-26T10:16:48Z")
Guinan was described as a listener. I took that to mean she had empathic abilities. That talking to her just made people relax and feel better. They never said, but I suspect Picard felt like he could be himself around her. She wasn’t part of Star Fleet. He didn’t have to play the role of Captain around her. He could be Jean Luc. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/25 "2015-03-26T14:09:36Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > An interesting take on knowing each other their whole lives. > > Another possibility, in keeping with something we know Guinan can do, is that they were stuck in a time loop together. She could sense the loop and eventually found a way to get Picard to perceive it as well. They worked together for _indeterminately long time_ to find a way out of the loop. Over time, they went through practically every variation a relationship could have. They loved, they hated, they forgave. They drove each other mad, and nursed each other back to sanity. But no matter what, they shared it, because there was no one else. In the end, they had shared so much that they were practically one person; their experience together outweighed the rest of their lives outside. > > Then, with a final change to the timeline, they escaped…and they forgot. Almost. Wow, this is great, thanks! Wish the ST:TNG writers had done something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/26 "2015-03-26T14:21:31Z")
Guinan was clearly a Time Lord. Q had every reason to be cautious around her. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/27 "2015-03-26T14:37:56Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Another possibility, in keeping with something we know Guinan can do, is that they were stuck in a time loop together. Well, Picard was in the (timeless) Nexus with some aspect of Guinan. > [@E-DUB](#): > > Don’t forget that Guinan also gave “Q” the heebie-jeebies. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > She does have one seriously useful ability - she can tell that the timestream has changed. That’s actually a pretty good power. But I don’t think she’s Q-like, or even Organian-like. My fanwank would be that while the El-Aurians do not have Q powers, they have some level of _resistance_ to Q powers. They can tell when Q has altered the universe around them. Q cannot wish them to the cornfield. And sometime back in the past, she used those powers in some tricky way to be an obstacle to one of Q’s plans, big-time. I’ve always assumed that her race allowed itself to be scattered by the Borg out of some principle of not using force. The Borg, by their nature, could not be shunted aside by empathy or cleverness, so if the only remaining alternative to using violence was capitulation, then capitulation it was. This tendency to non-violence may also be why the Federation-at-war universe of Yesterday’s Enterprise felt especially wrong to her. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/28 "2015-03-26T14:46:17Z")
Wow, there are some good ideas in this thread. Except the one comparing Dr Beverly with an Irish Setter. That’s right out. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/29 "2015-03-26T15:22:56Z")
Recall also that in _Insurrection_ that it was mentioned that Picard caught on very quickly to the “make time stand still/perfect moment” thingy…implying that he’s something of a savant when it comes to understanding matters relating to time and relativity. This has been hinted at numerous times by the series, and by Q…possibly due to Picard’s unwritten back-story with Guinan, as some have hinted at here. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/30 "2015-03-26T15:36:16Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > … > But in production terms, it was due to Whoopi Goldberg being a largish star at the time she was cast. It would be natural for her to be more willing to take a part that is Special and Important in that way (being unusually close to the show’s main character). Yeah, because Whoopi. Whoopi was known for some flamboyantly over the top roles. > [@FUTBOL!](#): > > Yes, I’ve often wondered about that scene as well. > > …If they shared the power that clearly intimidated Q, the expectation would be that they could do far more damage to the collective than that extra-dimensional race. > > I take it “seriously” that she had tremendous power because stupid Q took it seriously. He got so flabbergasted at her threatening pose that he very stupidly _warned_ Picard about her. … True, there’s something we’re not being told about Guinan. But then we _don’t_ find out exactly what it is. Perhaps that’s part of the mystique. Consider when George Lucas sort of wrecked The Force by coming up with all the biochem babble stuff to try to “explain” it. > [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Wasn’t Beverly an attractive Irish Setter? And not as shrill, too? I thought she was supposed to be Scottish, or at least was implied to be such in _Sub Rosa_. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/31 "2015-03-26T15:59:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I can’t recall a single episode that even hinted that Picard might be Wesley’s bio-father, and I defy you to name one. Just off the top of my head, the one where Beverly is caught in the warp bubble and everyone is disappearing - _Remember Me_. > [@](#): > > CRUSHER: For quite some time I’ve been meaning to say something to you. I might not have another chance. (she looks away for a moment) Jean Luc, you and I > (The computer has gone silent. He is not there) Lot’s of other hints early in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/32 "2015-03-26T16:00:03Z")
As to the Irish Setter reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kno009rEuhI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kno009rEuhI) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/33 "2015-03-26T16:15:10Z")
They both know that Quinan has a gold statuette that rightfully belongs to Picard. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/34 "2015-03-26T16:37:27Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Guinan was clearly a Time Lord. Q had every reason to be cautious around her. I was thinking that Guinan was Tom Bombadil…but I guess that may be the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/35 "2015-03-26T16:45:11Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Just off the top of my head, the one where Beverly is caught in the warp bubble and everyone is disappearing - _Remember Me_. > Lot’s of other hints early in the series. That’s a hint that she wanted to jump his bones, not that she had cuckolded her husband. Wesley’s name isn’t even mentioned. Picard’s a cape. Jack Crusher was his best friend. JLP would no more eff JC’s wife than Steve Rogers would boink Pepper Potts. I’m sure you can come up with other examples, since there are so many. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/36 "2015-03-26T17:47:30Z")
> [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](#): > > Wasn’t Beverly an attractive Irish Setter? And not as shrill, too? Yes, she was quite fetching. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/37 "2015-03-26T18:23:47Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > JLP would no more eff JC’s wife than Steve Rogers would boink Pepper Potts. I bet he’d bang Blythe Danner. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/38 "2015-03-26T18:32:48Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Picard’s a cape. Jack Crusher was his best friend. JLP would no more eff JC’s wife than Steve Rogers would boink Pepper Potts. But Happy would. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/39 "2015-03-26T19:56:05Z")
I always thought the implication was that Picard somehow caused or felt responsible for the death of Wesley’s father. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2015, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961/40 "2015-03-26T20:14:34Z")
> [@FUTBOL!](#): > > Yes, I’ve often wondered about that scene as well. > > Guinan would have to be unique among her people. Why? Her entire race was scattered by Borg aggression. If they shared the power that clearly intimidated Q, the expectation would be that they could do far more damage to the collective than that extra-dimensional race. > > I take it “seriously” that she had tremendous power because stupid Q took it seriously. He got so flabbergasted at her threatening pose that he very stupidly _warned_ Picard about her. Of course the flamboyant mini-speech against her trustworthiness was quickly rebutted by Picard, who threw it back at him. > > _ **Q, you’re talking about yourself!** _ Guinan had a talent for making people look inside and see their true selves. That’s a skill that Q would seriously unpleasant, but wouldn’t bother the Borg at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-guinan-have-a-special-meaning-to-picard/715961.md?page=3)