# Why did Henry VIII have so many problems with securring a male heir? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106 "2003-05-18T20:44:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/1 "2003-05-18T20:44:32Z")
I read anything I can get my hands on in respect to Henry and his lovely family. The thing I have always wondered about was Henry’s inability to beget a male heir that lived beyond 16 years of age. There was Edward, of course, but he died before reaching his 16th birthday. Henry Fitzroy (illegitimate) died at 17. His daughters, however, seem to be immune to whatever was causing the failure to thrive in his sons. Mary died at 42 and Elizabeth at 70. Additionally, Henry’s brother Arthur died at 16, and from what I can recall, both his parents and grandparents had male children die at early ages. Can anyone shed some light into this dark corner? I realize it is a matter of genetics (I guess) but what would cause one sex to live and the other to die? You could gloss over everything and say “inbreeding”, but Henry tried with 5 different wives (he wouldn’t touch Anne of Cleves) and had many, many affairs. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/2 "2003-05-18T21:41:34Z")
I’ve heard he had Syphilis, which may have had something to do with it. Perhaps it was passed to his male childern and killed them. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/3 "2003-05-18T21:56:53Z")
I think it was just a roll of the dice. Mere coincidence. After all, Henry himself only had two daughters and two sisters who lived to adulthood, and he and Catherine of Aragorn did have a stillborn daughter. And you certainly can’t count his maternal uncles, “the princes in the Tower,” even though they did die young. They were most likely murdered. It’s not a statistically unsound family tree. I think it’s just a sad commentary on the high infant and child mortality rate, not to mention the lack of effective fertility treatment. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/4 "2003-05-18T21:59:11Z")
Well Henry VIII _did_ produce a male heir, Edward VI. ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/5 "2003-05-18T22:03:41Z")
As far as I recollect, yes, he did have syphilis, but only in his middle to late years. ---
**Author:** ![WeaponOfMassProduction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d26b3c/32.png) [@WeaponOfMassProduction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeaponOfMassProduction)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/6 "2003-05-18T22:04:12Z")
He also sired an illegimate son named Henry (can’t remember last name) who lived to adulthood. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/7 "2003-05-18T22:28:14Z")
Probably coincidence and bad luck for the most part. Edward VI may not be - There is some suspiscion he had congenital syphilis as well as tuberculosis. But then so, probably, did Mary I and she lived to the age of 42. On the other hand Arthur Tudor is generally listed as dieing of a fever. Elizabeth seemed to have lucked out in her longevity. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/8 "2003-05-18T22:31:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by WeaponOfMassProduction \* > \*\*He also sired an illegimate son named Henry (can’t remember last name) who lived to adulthood. \*\* Right. Henry FitzRoy (1519-1536), Duke of Richmond, mentioned in the OP. He was created Duke of Richmond in 1526 and would likely have become Henry’s heir, had he lived. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/9 "2003-05-18T23:08:59Z")
Here’s a http://tudors.crispen.org/tudor\_tree/]family tree. Each of Henry’s sisters who lived to adulthood had a son. It was just fate that their sons lived; Henry’s sons died. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by robby \* > \*\*He was created Duke of Richmond in 1526 and would likely have become Henry’s heir, had he lived. \*\* Wanna hear something disgusting? There was talk of marrying him to his half-sister Mary to clinch the deal! You thought the British royal family was already inbred, huh? ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/10 "2003-05-18T23:14:42Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by sugaree \* \*\*Here’s a http://tudors.crispen.org/tudor\_tree/]family tree. Each of Henry’s sisters who lived to adulthood had a son. It was just fate that their sons lived; Henry’s sons died. [Fixed link](http://tudors.crispen.org/tudor_tree) I think. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Doubt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@Peter\_Doubt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Doubt)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/11 "2003-05-18T23:29:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lyllyan \* > \*\*I read anything I can get my hands on in respect to Henry and his lovely family. > > The thing I have always wondered about was Henry’s inability to beget a male heir that lived beyond 16 years of age. There was Edward, of course, but he died before reaching his 16th birthday. Henry Fitzroy (illegitimate) died at 17. His daughters, however, seem to be immune to whatever was causing the failure to thrive in his sons. Mary died at 42 and Elizabeth at 70. > > Additionally, Henry’s brother Arthur died at 16, and from what I can recall, both his parents and grandparents had male children die at early ages. > Can anyone shed some light into this dark corner? I realize it is a matter of genetics (I guess) but what would cause one sex to live and the other to die? You could gloss over everything and say “inbreeding”, but Henry tried with 5 different wives (he wouldn’t touch Anne of Cleves) and had many, many affairs. \*\* Fitzroy, possibly related to the Capt. Robert Fitzroy of HMS Beagle? ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2003, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/12 "2003-05-18T23:33:23Z")
Don’t think so **Sender** , as Henry Fitzroy died without issue at 17. Fitzroy was a name given to bastard children of royalty, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/13 "2003-05-19T01:23:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lyllyan \* > \*\*Fitzroy was a name given to bastard children of royalty, IIRC. \*\* It literally means “son of the king,” doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/14 "2003-05-19T01:31:45Z")
One speculation that may have explained a few things was the possibility that Anne Boleyn was Rh negative. Elizabeth was born healthy, but there were one or two stillborn births. There’s also some misconception about Edward VI. He was in general good health for most of his life, but grew ill once he became king. However, the ultimate answer was probably just coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![sugaree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@sugaree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugaree)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/15 "2003-05-19T01:37:16Z")
Most people are speculating on why his children died young. But **Lyllyan** is asking why only Tudor sons died young. This is a misconception to some degree, as the family tree shows. But the final answer to why more Tudor girls survived to adulthood is that it was just a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/16 "2003-05-19T04:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RealityChuck \* > \*\*One speculation that may have explained a few things was the possibility that Anne Boleyn was Rh negative. Elizabeth was born healthy, but there were one or two stillborn births.\ > However, the ultimate answer was probably just coincidence. \*\* Katherine also had quite a few miscarriages and stillbirths. **Bippy** , that has always been my understanding of the term, so, yes. It looks like the general concensus is coincidence. I am not really happy with that, but unless someone builds a time machine and I wake up one morning with a medical degree, I guess I will never know for sure. Thanks to all who responded. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/17 "2003-05-19T04:57:41Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by Lyllyan Fitzroy was a name given to bastard children of royalty, IIRC. > > It literally means “son of the king,” doesn’t it? > \*\* Yes. At least it _sounds_ like the french for “Kingson”. ---
**Author:** ![teleute12](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@teleute12](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teleute12)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/18 "2003-05-19T05:06:13Z")
I believe that “Fitz-” more correctly means illegitimate son of… whomever. From another thread a few days ago. ---
**Author:** ![Lyllyan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@Lyllyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lyllyan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/19 "2003-05-19T05:36:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by teleute12 \* > \*\*I believe that “Fitz-” more correctly means illegitimate son of… whomever. From another thread a few days ago. \*\* True - there are many "FitzHerberts, FitzHughs, FitzGibbons and the like. And “Roi” is French for king, is it not? ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2003, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106/20 "2003-05-19T06:08:58Z")
“Fitz-” may have been applied to illegimate sons of royalty and nobility, but it originally came via the Norman _fitz_, in turn from Norman-French _fils_ meaning just “son of”. [Some info.](http://www.hpl.lib.tx.us/clayton/ir002.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-henry-viii-have-so-many-problems-with-securring-a-male-heir/176106.md?page=2)