# 'Why did it have to be snakes?' - the 40th Anniversary 'Raiders of the Lost Ark' thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 12, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114 "2021-06-12T14:09:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/61 "2021-06-15T14:49:09Z")
Always loved seeing the way all those Nazis died, just managing to out do Bedknobs and Broomsticks. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/62 "2021-06-15T15:27:54Z")
Did I mention that the Ghost of the Grotto has a full suit of armor, has a long white beard, and guards his treasure in a cave? > **[Howard Lowery Online Auction: Disney CARL BARKS Signed Limited Edition...](https://auction.howardlowery.com/Bidding.taf?_function=detail&category_id=10660&Auction_uid1=3503613)** > > Disney CARL BARKS Signed Limited Edition Lithograph MENACE FROM THE GROTTO of Donald Duck, 1996. First published in Walt Disney’s Donald Duck (Four Color #159) in August 1947. It wasn’t reprinted in the US until nineteen years later, in 1966, which is when I first bought and read it. The Grail Knight [![](https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Grail_Knight?file=Knight.jpg) ](https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/Grail_Knight?file=Knight.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/63 "2021-06-15T15:58:17Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > For all the logical gaps in _Raiders_ , the opening of _Temple of Doom_ is worse. Willie is singing in a nightclub, but then the camera moves into the dragon decoration on stage, and then there’s a dance sequence shot on a soundstage. What are the patrons in the club watching while all those women are dancing backstage? It’s a Busby Berkeley-esque fantasy sequence in Willie’s head, because she’d rather be the star of a huge Rockettes-style dance number in New York or a Hollywood movie instead of “star” of a small dance troupe in a nightclub in a foreign city. She’s probably really inside the dragon for a few seconds, with the other dancers doing something for the nightclub audience that we the movie audience don’t see. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/64 "2021-06-15T16:09:33Z")
As I’ve mentioned before, the thing at the beginning of Temple of Doom that ruins it for me is the way they escape death in the plummeting plane by jumping out with an inflatable raft. I’m sorry – that doesn’t work. Even before Mythbusters tried it out, it was clear to me that an inflatable raft was unlikely to slow your descent enough (assuming you even stayed in it) to prevent severe injury when you hit. And especially when you then slid off the edge of a cliff into a shallow river. Indy, Willie, and Short Round ended up with, at minimum, several broken bones, probably broken spines, and lots on internal injuries. And the problem is that Willing Suspension of Disbelief is a fragile thing. Once it’s gone, you have to work hard to get it back. I think this (and not the absence of Evil Nazis) is the main reason I’m dissatisfied with the second Indiana Jones film. Granted, I don’t have a problem with all the other absurd goings-on. I can accept huge Thuggee cults and magic potions and magical glowing diamond-filled sacred stones, but have me accept that my hero jumped out of a plane using only a life raft and you’ve lost me. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/65 "2021-06-15T16:10:19Z")
> [@John\_Bredin](#): > > It’s a Busby Berkeley-esque fantasy sequence in Willie’s head, because she’d rather be the star of a huge Rockettes-style dance number in New York or a Hollywood movie instead of “star” of a small dance troupe in a nightclub in a foreign city. She’s probably really inside the dragon for a few seconds, with the other dancers doing something for the nightclub audience that we the movie audience don’t see. I think Spielberg wanted to try his hand at a throwback production number to go along with the 1930s era of the film. I am curious whether that sort of impossible setting was part of the homage. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a real Busby Berkeley movie. Did his dance numbers fit within the setting where they were supposed to take place, or did a tiny rehearsal space suddenly turn into a huge soundstage with 50 dancers and a 100-piece orchestra, and then back again when the number was over? ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/66 "2021-06-15T20:38:27Z")
Scrolling to the bottom without reading, just so I can get my favorite moments/images in. The girl with “Love You” on her eyelids. “None of you guys go to Sunday school?” The reveal of how the Nazis got (one side) of the head piece. Whoa!! I like how Indy’s knees wobble when he takes a punch from Bald Nazi Mechanic. Top. Men. The final shot. 😮 The entire opening sequence. OMG. We’re in for something special here, folks. Quibbles: Marion literally drinks some guy under the table, is on the verge of collapse herself, but rallies to the point where she is sober as a judge within moments. The instructions for the headpiece are partial on one side, but edited (patched, version 2.0) on the other? OK, clever, cool, but…seriously?? Spielberg has no problems with altering geography as needed. The short sprint to the seaplane, the cliffs appearing out of nowhere in the truck scene (and the tank scene in Last Crusade, and the T Rex scene in Jurassic Park) ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/67 "2021-06-15T20:51:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I don’t think I’ve ever seen a real Busby Berkeley movie. Did his dance numbers fit within the setting where they were supposed to take place, or did a tiny rehearsal space suddenly turn into a huge soundstage with 50 dancers and a 100-piece orchestra, and then back again when the number was over? That’s exactly what they do (the latter). Footlight Parade ends with a series of musical numbers that are ostensibly being performed on the tiny space in front of a movie theater screen, but in reality would require a space the size of a dirigible hanger. And they even hang a lampshade on it, closing each number by pulling back and showing the tiny stage it “all took place on”. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/68 "2021-06-15T21:20:53Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I can accept huge Thuggee cults and magic potions and magical glowing diamond-filled sacred stones, but have me accept that my hero jumped out of a plane using only a life raft and you’ve lost me. I bet you hate James Bond movies. 😄 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2021, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/69 "2021-06-15T21:28:58Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What aged the worst: The implication Marion was a teenager when they first got together, though I must point out they never do say how old she actually was. I don’t know where @JohnT gets “Twelve” from. If you want to figure she was 18, why not? Maybe she was. The Fandom wiki gives her birth date as 1909, which does make her _about_ 10 years younger than Indy. They met _around_ 1925 or 26, and then or shortly afterward, they started a romance of some sort. That would make her 16 or 17, maybe 18. Since in 1936 she says “10 years” iirc, that would be a outside age of 18. Depending on her birthday. And since at that point she had no real life experience, it is very reasonable for her to claim that the 17yo self was “a child”. So sure, 18 is plausible. 12 is not. > [@Deeg](#): > > Do we have any real archeologists on the Dope? When watching the movies I often amuse myself by imagining archeologists cringing at the way Indy wreaks havoc on the sites themselves. It’s more obvious in Last Crusade but he does plenty of damage in the Well of Souls. Yeah, he is more of a Tomb Raider, but that sort of stuff was not uncommon preWW2. > [@Uniqueorn](#): > > Who won the movie? Amy from Big Bang Theory Naw, that is bogus. If Indy hadn’t found the Ark, the Nazis would have done so simply by digging up the whole damn city. Unlimited manpower and resources. And that would have been bad. Indy wins by keeping the Ark (twice) from the Nazis. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/70 "2021-06-16T00:42:38Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > bet you hate James Bond movies. 😄 James Bond never did anything quite that dumb. When he found himself falling without a parachute he stole one from a Bad Guy. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/71 "2021-06-16T01:51:12Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I can accept huge Thuggee cults and magic potions and magical glowing diamond-filled sacred stones, but have me accept that my hero jumped out of a plane using only a life raft and you’ve lost me. What lost me was the guy reaching into people’s chests and pulling out their hearts. Last I looked, there’s a big bone in the way. People may not know about the suitability of rafts as airplane escape crafts, but everyone should know they have a breastbone. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/72 "2021-06-16T02:10:43Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What lost me was the guy reaching into people’s chests and pulling out their hearts. Last I looked, there’s a big bone in the way. An interesting thing is that **Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom** wasn’t the only movie of 1984 in which the heroine played by Kate Capshaw\* saw the villain reach into a victim’s chest and pull out his heart with his bare hand (and still leaving the victim alive). The same thing happened in **Dreamscape** , a much less popular fantasy adventure film. Seems a lot of people don’t know about the breastbone. Or, more likely, they don’t care. What I want to know is how they keep the guy alive without a heart. > **[Dreamscape (1984 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamscape_(1984_film))** > > Dreamscape is a 1984 American dark science-fiction adventure film directed by Joseph Ruben and written by David Loughery, with Chuck Russell and Ruben co-writing. It stars Dennis Quaid, Kate Capshaw, Max von Sydow and Christopher Plummer. > Alex Gardner is a psychic who has been using his talents solely for personal gain, which mainly consists of gambling and womanizing. When he was 19 years old, Alex had been the prime subject of a scientific research project documenting his psychic ability but, ... - she later married Steven Spielberg. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/73 "2021-06-16T02:15:54Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > What I want to know is how they keep the guy alive without a heart. Cartoon logic. If a person doesn’t know about the breastbone, they can easily reach in and pull out a heart. They don’t know something is supposed to be in the way, so it isn’t. Likewise, if people don’t know they can’t live without a heart, they don’t die. [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/49/82/ac4982cde6b9d16057f5fbe23d192c0d.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/49/82/ac4982cde6b9d16057f5fbe23d192c0d.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/74 "2021-06-16T02:18:41Z")
Or Die Hard movies. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/75 "2021-06-16T05:09:51Z")
Temple of Doom was just mean-spirited, that’s why it sucked. IIRC, Spielberg was also losing $100 mil to Amy Irving at the same time, which may have contributed to the tone of the film. I remember being very disappointed in this one. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/76 "2021-06-16T17:55:43Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Temple of Doom was just mean-spirited, that’s why it sucked. Temple of Doom: Annoying female lead Annoying kid sidekick “Giant vampire bats”…otherwise known as harmless fruit bats/flying foxes. Surprisingly racist – Indians are barbarians who eat live eels and monkey brains Children in peril Indy is a zombie for a big chunk One shot in particular stands out: after the raft skydive, and they wash ashore, Kate asks where they are and Indy replies: “India”…with a big dramatic cut / duh-duh-duuuuuh music cue, and shot of Scary Looking Guy. As if the presence of a scowling Indian senior citizen indicates that they’ve traveled into a mysterious land of great peril. But it does have some really great set pieces. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/77 "2021-06-16T18:08:45Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > The mechanic is not a ‘bad guy’, he is incidental to the fight. Therefore, the camera follows him to show that an ‘innocent’ was not hurt by Indy. The mechanic first tried to smash Indy with a wrench. Plus, you know, Nazi. Of course he’s a “bad guy”. He’s worse than the 8 soldiers in a truck that Marion mercilessly gunned down. Seriously, Marion has the highest body count in the whole movie (besides Yahweh of course). I agree with Robot Arm’s take - they had to show the gas reaching the plane, and it’s more visually interesting to show a minor character instead of just gas under the wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/78 "2021-06-16T21:22:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Yeah. The conversation was more explicit than that, with Lucas arguing that the relationship was boring if Marion was older than 15 when she first hooked up with Indy, and was really pushing had for 12: This from the man who changed “Han shot first”. Authors are not necessarily authorities of their own works. Lucas had some great instincts on movie-making, but once he starts thinking about it turns into crap. (And note that my standards are low–I generally like the Star Wars prequels.) > [@silenus](#): > > > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > > I also wondered if the warehouse where they put the Ark was full of every supernatural thing, like a giant X-Files repository. > > They stashed it in [Warehouse 13](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warehouse_13). See also [Warehouse 23](http://basement.warehouse23.com/box/index.html), where you can randomly open different boxes. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > I think the bit about the Headpiece from the Staff of Ra is a bit of a red herring. The Nazis were digging up pretty much all of Tanis. Even without the Staff or the Map Room, it seems like they’d have found the Well of Souls eventually. If Indy hadn’t gotten involved, the Nazis would still have gotten the Ark. It’s one of the iconic scenes of in the movie. For example, it’s imitated in World of Warcraft’s Uldaman dungeon. More than once in code computer I’ve written, when I’ve corrected an “off by one” error, I’ll put in the comments something like “take back one to honor the Coding God, whose algorithm this is”. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/79 "2021-06-16T21:29:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What lost me was the guy reaching into people’s chests and pulling out their hearts. Last I looked, there’s a big bone in the way. > > People may not know about the suitability of rafts as airplane escape crafts, but everyone should know they have a breastbone. Eh, it was the magic of whatever spell the cult leader was chanting. Non-realistic magic has _always_ been a part of this films series. I mean Raiders ended with the Ark of the Covenant literally shooting a beam into the sky and melting the faces of Nazis, so if they want to have a Thuggee cult leader be able to reach into someone’s chest and remove his heart, doesn’t seem that outlandish. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114/80 "2021-06-16T22:00:18Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > I mean Raiders ended with the Ark of the Covenant literally shooting a beam into the sky and melting the faces of Nazis, so if they want to have a Thuggee cult leader be able to reach into someone’s chest and remove his heart, doesn’t seem that outlandish. The first was actually God Almighty. I can accept that, in the context of the movie. The second was the equivalent of some random Christian pastor performing miracles. (plus of course, the fact that, in the Indy universe, the Christian God is the one true god. The Thugees are pagan blasphemers, and cannot rely on the fundamental powers of the universe.) Harder to accept. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-it-have-to-be-snakes-the-40th-anniversary-raiders-of-the-lost-ark-thread/944114.md?page=5)