# Why did John the Baptist eat locusts? They're not kosher! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277 "2008-03-13T20:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![amarinth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3be4f8/32.png) [@amarinth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarinth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/21 "2008-03-13T22:09:05Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] Is Batman kosher? [/QUOTE] Only if he’s prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/22 "2008-03-13T22:10:52Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Clearly the Levites were just as meticulous about their ornithology as their entomology. “Well, OBVIOUSLY bats are birds; they have two legs! If they were insects, they’d have four.” [/QUOTE] To be fair, you’re imposing a taxonomical system on the ancients that had not been formulated yet. They also classified dolphins and whales as “fish,” not because they were stupid because they used a different set of definitions. The explanation I’ve heard for the “four legged insect” thing is that they didn’t count the hopping legs as “crawling” legs. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/23 "2008-03-13T22:12:11Z")
[QUOTE=amarinth] Only if he’s prepared. [/QUOTE] Win. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/24 "2008-03-13T22:16:14Z")
FYI, locusts are also halal. Pretty convenient when locusts periodically lay waste to vast swaths of crops and people face starvation or malnourishment as a result. Hey, guess what, we can eat those locusts! Whee! ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/25 "2008-03-13T22:31:46Z")
Or he may have been eating [seed pods](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/09/04/do0407.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/09/04/ixop.html). ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/26 "2008-03-13T22:33:16Z")
Mangetout: > [@](#): > > That seems weird - because ‘any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper’ seems too general and inclusive to be able to be misundertood or misidentified - is the English translation lending it a false sense of clarity? That’s the answer. Many English translations offered for Biblical species are not accurate and cannot be taken as (so to speak) gospel. The Jewish practice is to not to eat any species that we do not have a continued tradition of being Kosher. (The Kosher-status of the turkey was very controversial when it was first introduced to European Jews, and there are still a few sects that won’t eat it.) ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/27 "2008-03-13T22:37:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] To be fair, you’re imposing a taxonomical system on the ancients that had not been formulated yet. They also classified dolphins and whales as “fish,” not because they were stupid because they used a different set of definitions. The explanation I’ve heard for the “four legged insect” thing is that they didn’t count the hopping legs as “crawling” legs. [/QUOTE] Oh I realize this. My remarks were intended in a lighthearted vein. I think it was eminently wise of the ancients to adopt a systematic approach to their bug-eating. No doubt this came in handy when encountering a stranger eating bugs in the wasteland. If they were just out there eating bugs willy-nilly, you’d know that they were just crazy. But if they were taking the proper time to classify their bugs beforehand, that would be a completely different story. Attention to detail is the key to a successful bug-eater. You’d know that such a fellow could be trusted. They might even ask you to help identify a particularly enigmatic bug. If you happened to be carrying any bugs yourself, you could trade. It was probably a social thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/28 "2008-03-13T22:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=Gala Matrix Fire] FYI, locusts are also halal. Pretty convenient when locusts periodically lay waste to vast swaths of crops and people face starvation or malnourishment as a result. Hey, guess what, we can eat those locusts! Whee! [/QUOTE] In fact, I’ve seen it done in Islamic parts of Africa. I’ve had a nice smoked locust offered to me, but I just… couldn’t. And actually, I learned afterwards that you _shouldn’t_ eat them, because the swarms are often bombed with pesticides. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/29 "2008-03-13T23:06:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sal Ammoniac] In fact, I’ve seen it done in Islamic parts of Africa. I’ve had a nice smoked locust offered to me, but I just… couldn’t. And actually, I learned afterwards that you _shouldn’t_ eat them, because the swarms are often bombed with pesticides. [/QUOTE] Are pesticides kosher? (And, after the Batman bit, I gotta ask…are humans kosher?) ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/30 "2008-03-13T23:09:41Z")
[QUOTE=amarinth] Only if he’s prepared. [/QUOTE] I was going to say it depends on how he was prepared. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/31 "2008-03-13T23:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Are pesticides kosher? (And, after the Batman bit, I gotta ask…are humans kosher?) [/QUOTE] Only if they have cloven hooves and chew their cud. ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/32 "2008-03-13T23:23:35Z")
[QUOTE=begbert2] Are pesticides kosher? (And, after the Batman bit, I gotta ask…are humans kosher?) [/QUOTE] Humans are not specifically mentioned as being allowed or prohibited. However, the guidelines also stipulate that for mammals to be kosher they must be slaughtered in a prescribed manner. They cannot have died of natural causes, been killed by other animals or have any diseases. So the only way to prepare a human for consumption would be through murder which is of course strongly prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/33 "2008-03-13T23:41:11Z")
leviticus 11:22-23 these are the ones you may eat; the several kinds of migratory locust, solham, hargol, and hagab locust in their several kinds. being a native of israel and seeming knowing of wilderness survival and the son of a high priest, i would hope he would know kosher locusts from non kosher. there is an interesting tradition on the day his death is remembered. on that day you don’t eat off a plate, platter, or flat service. also any food that is round or refered to as a “head” is not eaten. this does present some challenges as that day is a strict fast day, no dairy, meat, olive oil, or shellfish (some will list any fish). jordan almonds are okay. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/34 "2008-03-13T23:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=rocking chair] there is an interesting tradition on the day his death is remembered. on that day you don’t eat off a plate, platter, or flat service. also any food that is round or refered to as a “head” is not eaten. this does present some challenges as that day is a strict fast day, no dairy, meat, olive oil, or shellfish (some will list any fish). jordan almonds are okay. [/QUOTE] What religion does this? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/35 "2008-03-13T23:44:10Z")
I, for one, welcome our new insect _hors d’œuvres_… ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/36 "2008-03-13T23:50:57Z")
Well, and further, their law _REQUIRES_ them to eat non-kosher food if they will starve and that is all there is to eat. It is specifically written that way. I am not finding where it explains this, but I am sure someone else can find a link to post backing up my assertion if I cannot. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/37 "2008-03-13T23:51:16Z")
it is an odd tradition in the orthodox church. the strict fast rules for the day is universal throughout. the plates, round, head part are something that is an individual thing. some do, mostly older people who grew up with it, some don’t, think it is a bit much given the strict fast rules (dairy, meat, etc) and too “cutsy”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2008, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/38 "2008-03-13T23:55:36Z")
One presumes chocolate covered grasshoppers to be dairy. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/39 "2008-03-14T01:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=rocking chair] it is an odd tradition in the orthodox church. the strict fast rules for the day is universal throughout. the plates, round, head part are something that is an individual thing. some do, mostly older people who grew up with it, some don’t, think it is a bit much given the strict fast rules (dairy, meat, etc) and too “cutsy”. [/QUOTE] Ah, I see now! I was raised Roman Catholic and I don’t believe that’s a mainstream practice for us. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2008, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277/40 "2008-03-14T02:14:26Z")
begbert2: > [@](#): > > Are pesticides kosher? Depends what’s in them. Anything derived from animal matter would have to be looked into. I suspect that most modern pesticides are fully non-animal and raise no Kashrut questions. > [@](#): > > (And, after the Batman bit, I gotta ask…are humans kosher?) As a matter of fact, they are, though the halachic issues regarding how you’d obtain one to eat render the question moot. Humans are considered to be of a different category of being than animals. Zabali\_Clawbane: > [@](#): > > I am not finding where it explains this, but I am sure someone else can find a link to post backing up my assertion if I cannot. The Talmud derives it from Leviticus 18:5, “Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them.” That last phrase is taken to imply that one should live by the commandments and not die by them. (Babylonian Talmud, Yoma 85b) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-john-the-baptist-eat-locusts-theyre-not-kosher/441277.md?page=3)