# Why did Kelly take the job? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 1, 2017, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568 "2017-08-01T12:13:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/21 "2017-08-01T14:44:06Z")
I like the idea of Trump having a few “generals” in his cabinet. Generals don’t usually start wars. Dumb-ass civilians, who don’t know any better, are usually the ones who start wars. If Trump fancies war with North Korea, he picked the wrong advisers. Neither of those 3 guys is going to recommend war with North Korea, and will be strongly on the side arguing against if it comes to that. Military leaders like to take on efforts with clearly defined goals that can actually be accomplished by military force. “Liberate North Korea” or “Depose Kim and see what happens” is not the kind of goal a military guy wants to be saddled with. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/22 "2017-08-01T15:29:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I can understand Trump’s motivations for asking Kelly to be WH CoS. But I can’t for the life of me understand why Kelly agreed to take the job. As a general, he had full command of DHS and was seemingly doing a good job while being well respected. As WH CoS, he will not have disciplined staff who support the chain of command. Especially not among those who are related to the Orange Menace. I also doubt very much that he’ll be able to have significant long term influence over the Orange Menace with respect to instilling discipline and restraint. > > My best guess is that _hubris_ is the chief reason Kelly took the job. He thinks he can do what others have failed to do. I suspect he’ll be frustrated by reality of having seized a bull by the tail. Sooner or later, even the general will find himself on the business end of the bull and end up being gored and trampled. How about a negative motivation? Imagine you’re Kelly. Imagine you’re offered that job: moved from commanding DHS to serving as WH CoS. You _don’t,_ I take it, have the hubris to think you can handle that job with no trouble at all (because, if you did, you wouldn’t be guessing that his decision _equals_ hubris). But then take that one step further: _“He thinks he can do what others have failed to do”_, you suspect. Okay, fine; that means it’s a choice between (a) turning down that job and (b) someone else handling it. :eek: So maybe you take that job after all, right? I mean, if nothing else, to keep it out of the hands of an _utter_ incompetent who’d have a _harder_ time with it? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/23 "2017-08-01T16:13:08Z")
If I’m Kelly and already the head of the DHS, I can exert influence from that position as a member of the security council. On the other hand, as a WH CoS, I have a group of incompetent, lying, dog-eat-dog factional jack-offs to try to control. Some of whom on day one declared their refusal to respect the chain of command. How effective can I be in exerting a positive influence on this dysfunctional group of liars and incompetents, even if I’m potentially the most skilled CoS in history? Plus now, I’m not entirely sure if the next DHS head will be as competent and rational. Again, that’s just my line of reasoning. Still not sure what Kelly’s motives are. Not saying he doesn’t have good intentions. But you know what they say about good intentions. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/24 "2017-08-01T17:27:26Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If I’m Kelly and already the head of the DHS, I can exert influence from that position as a member of the security council. On the other hand, as a WH CoS, I have a group of incompetent, lying, dog-eat-dog factional jack-offs to try to control. Some of whom on day one declared their refusal to respect the chain of command. How effective can I be in exerting a positive influence on this dysfunctional group of liars and incompetents, even if I’m potentially the most skilled CoS in history? Plus now, I’m not entirely sure if the next DHS head will be as competent and rational. There’s a saying in the military (probably in the civilian world as well). When someone complains that the job they are being asked to do is hard, the answer is “hard is authorized.” My guess is that Kelly didn’t get to be a four star by staying in a comfortable job when a more important, harder job was offered. Thank goodness we have men and women like him who don’t sit on their ass when the difficult work needs to be done. Like you **QuickSilver** , I wish him success. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/25 "2017-08-01T17:52:13Z")
I think he wants to make us safer if he can. Remember, if he quits over something/anything it’s going to be a big shot across the bow for donald. That might be the last straw for this presidency. Does anyone think he wouldn’t have quit if the mooch stayed on? At this point personnel is such a loaded issue for the goldfish that any of a number of appointees could change the whole situation by quitting publicly and loudly. It might never be Devos or mnuchin, but could apply to anyone with the basic common sense god gave an average dope poster. I think there are a couple in there. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/26 "2017-08-01T18:08:13Z")
Maybe Kelly took the job out of a sense of civic duty and the belief that somebody in the chain of command needs to be sane. What I will speculate on is the probability that Kelly won’t last. He will either quit when the craziness continues because the Orange Peril is constantly overruling him, or the O.P. will fire him for disagreeing with him once too often. Kelly may be a disciplined general but he is only one man in an asylum of crazy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/27 "2017-08-01T19:20:51Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Maybe Kelly took the job out of a sense of civic duty and the belief that somebody in the chain of command needs to be sane. What I will speculate on is the probability that Kelly won’t last. He will either quit when the craziness continues because the Orange Peril is constantly overruling him, or the O.P. will fire him for disagreeing with him once too often. Kelly may be a disciplined general but he is only one man in an asylum of crazy. Hmm. When you put it that way – _one_ is a hard pill to swallow; but what about _two?_ Just think of it: the Chief of Staff projecting authority in general, but no agenda aside from efficiency in particular. I mean, sure, he’s got priorities, and he schedules stuff accordingly – but he never proposes a specific course of action; he leaves that to Cabinet secretaries, who pitch stuff to the President when the CoS arranges it. So he’s middle management with _balls,_ in that he’s a procedural hardliner who never steps out of that content-free role to push a substantive goal. Now, if you’re the one sane man in an asylum of crazy, that’s – well, that’s _doomed,_ as you say. But if you’re one sane man who plays that ‘vigorous arranger’ role to give every advantage to _one other sane man_ – well, that could work, right? So it’d be like Good-Cop-Bad-Cop – except it’s, uh, Gatekeeper Playing A Favorite and Guy Who Can Make The Most Of An Opening. And isn’t there another four-star General in the Cabinet? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/28 "2017-08-01T22:50:56Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I like the idea of Trump having a few “generals” in his cabinet. Generals don’t usually start wars. Dumb-ass civilians, who don’t know any better, are usually the ones who start wars. If Trump fancies war with North Korea, he picked the wrong advisers. Neither of those 3 guys is going to recommend war with North Korea, and will be strongly on the side arguing against if it comes to that. > > Military leaders like to take on efforts with clearly defined goals that can actually be accomplished by military force. “Liberate North Korea” or “Depose Kim and see what happens” is not the kind of goal a military guy wants to be saddled with. It’s something that might make us comfortable with this particular administration, but that’s only because the democratic process failed so miserably that we might be left with many good civilian options to manage the White House through this unprecedented mess. Over time, though, it is generally not a good thing to have high ranking military command, even those who are technically retired, to be near the throttles of civilian government on a regular basis. The military is the ultimate lever of power. Blur the lines between civilian and military power, and you lose your democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/29 "2017-08-01T23:58:47Z")
Whatever his reason for taking the job, I think he’ll ge fired either this Friday or next Friday. This is a pattern, the crazy seems to built during the week and hit a crescendo at end of day on Friday. So if he has a really bad week, Kelly will be gone Friday. If the week isn’t so bad, he may hang on until next Friday. Trump’s already tweeted his intention to keep tweeting, so Kelly’s not going to keep him away from the phone. But the CoS job is that of gatekeeper and I don’t think Trump is going to submit to that level of control. But carry on. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/30 "2017-08-02T04:56:29Z")
Probably for personal ambition. You don’t get to be a general without being ambitious and knowing how to climb a ladder. Kelly probably is calculating that if he can be the one to restore some order to this White House, he could find himself as a veep someday. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/31 "2017-08-02T04:58:07Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > From your linked article, it appears he is not personally repulsed by Trump, and may even share many of his deplorable sentiments. Once one is past that hurdle, why wouldn’t one accept the job? Being called upon by the Commander in Chief to take on a new challenge, being close to the seat of power and leader of the free world, the challenge of accomplishing something meaningful, y’know - the usual. (Besides, it’s a paycheck. **Generals don’t get rich being Generals.** ) All the more mysterious that he would voluntarily take a [pay](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Schedule#Level_I) [cut…](https://www.gobankingrates.com/personal-finance/gardener-chief-staff-much-trumps-white-house-staff-make/) (anyway, it’s always been my understanding that Generals get rich being _retired_ Generals…) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/32 "2017-08-02T05:06:29Z")
Maybe if they started taking jobs with military/defense corporations? Nah, that would never work, forget I even said it, ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/33 "2017-08-03T04:36:22Z")
On the topic of Kelly taking (or trying to take) control of the information and misinformation being fed to Trump: Article in Politico, dated August 2 by Josh Dawsey: [Kelly cracks down on West Wing back channels to Trump](http://www.politico.com/story/2017/08/02/john-kelly-trump-west-wing-241268) Article says that Kelly will crack down on all the aides, assistance, other people who are blithely walking into the Oval Office to plunk down their reports, white papers, essays, or whatever, in front of Trump. Basically, all forms of more-or-less “official” (or maybe not-so-official) information that people are bringing to Trump. Kelly will assert his role as the gatekeeper. The article gives many examples of kinds and sources of information that Trump is getting, and sucking up, that Kelly will insist on curating first. (And lots of examples from previous administrations.) BUT… Those examples include many of the worst sources of information that Kelly obviously can’t control – All that cable news that Trump watches; late-night calls with his family, friends, anybody he wants to listen to regardless of their qualifications. The author of the article seems not to take note that these sources of information, some of the worst, are exactly what Kelly CAN’T take control of. So the author really doesn’t address this problem at all. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/34 "2017-08-03T13:10:31Z")
Maybe Kelly thought he could be more effective in [the job he and fellow General Mattis agreed to take on](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/john-kelly-james-mattis-donald-trump-us-generals-marines-secret-pact-white-house-defence-homeland-a7872116.html), keeping Trump’s finger off the button. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/35 "2017-08-03T13:15:47Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > On the topic of Kelly taking (or trying to take) control of the information and misinformation being fed to Trump: > … > BUT… Those examples include many of the worst sources of information that Kelly obviously can’t control – All that cable news that Trump watches; late-night calls with his family, friends, anybody he wants to listen to regardless of their qualifications. The author of the article seems not to take note that these sources of information, some of the worst, are exactly what Kelly CAN’T take control of. So the author really doesn’t address this problem at all. Not to mention the misinformation, lies, and bullshit that Trump creates inside his own head all by himself. Such as imagining and quoting phone calls that never happened. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/36 "2017-08-03T14:05:15Z")
The military mindset tends to overvalue discipline and restraint. These are positives, to be sure, but they are not cure-alls. Like businessmen, they tend to believe that things would be better over all if persons like themselves had more power and control, they would straighten shit out. No more nonsense! And like most of us who think ourselves under-rated, they are eager for the opportunity to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/37 "2017-08-03T14:50:50Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Article says that Kelly will crack down on all the aides, assistance, other people who are blithely walking into the Oval Office to plunk down their reports, white papers, essays, or whatever, in front of Trump. Basically, all forms of more-or-less “official” (or maybe not-so-official) information that people are bringing to Trump. Kelly will assert his role as the gatekeeper. AKA “plausible deniability.” “No, I was never given this report on Russia.” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2017, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568/38 "2017-08-03T18:33:35Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > AKA “plausible deniability.” > > “No, I was never given this report on Russia.” I don’t see anything nefarious in this. I work at a somewhat high level office within DoD. When I was CoS, my biggest issue giving the boss as much free time as I could. The number one way to do this was to keep meetings focused, keep them short, and keep them as small as possible. EVERYONE wants 10 minutes with the boss. Access to him/her equals power outside of that office. Nothing to do with plausible deniability. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-kelly-take-the-job/792568.md?page=1)