# Why did men create the false gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2005, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584 "2005-12-01T18:25:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/61 "2005-12-02T17:33:07Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How can you put gods that don’t exist “before me?” How can Yahweh be “jealous” of gods that don’t exist? Well, say you have a parent with a gay child and the parent wants to kick the child out of the house because of hte parent’s religious convictions. If someone said, “Don’t put your god ahead of your family!” would you counter that the parent can’t put something that doesn’t exist ahead of something that does? Oh, and I’ve seen people get jealous over things that don’t exist, too! I agree with you that the wording is suspect. For me, though it’s that it doesn’t say, “Don’t worship other gods” or even “Other gods don’t exist.” No, it says, “Don’t worship those gods more than you worship me.” I should come first implies something else comes second. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/62 "2005-12-02T18:05:28Z")
Dio: > [@](#): > > This is an apologetic response, not an analytical one based on an objective examination of all other evidence. An unbiased investigation of Palestinian archaeology as well as some internal evidence within the Hebrew Bible itself shows that it is highly likely that montheistic Judaism emerged from what was originally a henotheistic culture. This is an uncontroversial assumption among students of the ancient Middle East but I understand and acknowledge and appreciate that millions of people are going to dispute it. There’s no doubt in my mind that there were polytheistic/henotheistic cultures in the ancient Middle East, and surely archaeology would unearth evidence of them. In fact, I’ll even grant that there were people who worshipped idols alongside worship of the currently-acknowledged Biblical diety…the residents of the Northern Kingdom of Israel certainly had done so. Whether one actually grew out of the other, or whether they were independent ideologies which competed with one another until one finally won out is a point I would dispute, and I have yet to see any convincing evidence of an evolutionary relationship between the two. However, that’s completely irrelevant to what I was saying anyway. All I was addressing is that does not necessarily mean that the line “You shall have no other gods before me” imples an acknowledgement of polytheism/henotheism as a valid world view. It acknowledges the existence of other powers at work in the world (ultimately, the Hebrew “Elohim” means power, and while it’s often used to refer to G-d, it also often refers to humans or other entities with power), but does not in any way imply that these other powers are equal to or independent of G-d. Just because you can write this explanation off as “apologetic” does not make it invalid. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/63 "2005-12-03T00:42:49Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Good point. The pagans worshiped those items and regarded them as “gods,” even though they weren’t. The items weren’t gods, or the pagan gods weren’t gods? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > How can you put gods that don’t exist “before me?” > [@JThunder](#): > > By believing that they exist, even though they don’t, and then worshiping them. It’s that simple. What’s your evidence that these other gods don’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/64 "2005-12-03T01:32:01Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Good point. The pagans worshiped those items and regarded them as “gods,” even though they weren’t. > > The items weren’t gods, or the pagan gods weren’t gods? The items existed, but they were not gods. > [@](#): > > What’s your evidence that these other gods don’t exist? Irrelevant. The question is whether Exodus 20:3 is a tacit acknowledgement that these pagan deities did indeed exist. It is not. Even if these gods did indeed exist, that would not change the meaning of the verse in question. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/65 "2005-12-03T01:33:14Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Just because you can write this explanation off as “apologetic” does not make it invalid. Indeed. In logic, that is known as the _genetic fallacy_–dismissing a belief based on its origin, rather than reasoning. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/66 "2005-12-03T01:54:44Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Indeed. In logic, that is known as the _genetic fallacy_–dismissing a belief based on its origin, rather than reasoning. Nonsense. Apologetics _is_ a form of reasoning. If I said that Chaim was wrong because he is Orthodox, that would be a genetic fallacy. Pointing out that an argument is based on certain _a priori_ faith assumptions rather than a critical analysis of available evidence is not fallacious in the least. I was addressing the argument, not the source. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/67 "2005-12-03T04:13:41Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Nonsense. Apologetics _is_ a form of reasoning. Nobody says that it isn’t. The point is that saying “You’re just using apologetics!” is an invalid line of reasoning. So what if the person is employing an apologetic argument? As **cmkellar** said, that doesn’t make his reasoning invalid. What if someone were to offer an argument for atheism? The theists could respond by saying, “You just don’t want to believe in God,” and they could be right. That would not invalidate the atheist’s argument, though. Not in the least. Sauce for the goose, sauce for the gander. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/68 "2005-12-03T04:57:56Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Nobody says that it isn’t. The point is that saying “You’re just using apologetics!” is an invalid line of reasoning. That isn’t exactly what I said. I was pointing out that the apologia in this case is rooted in _a priori_ faith assumptions and that those assumptions _in this case_ are contradicted by physical evidence. > [@](#): > > So what if the person is employing an apologetic argument? As **cmkellar** said, that doesn’t make his reasoning invalid. The so what is that it assumes facts not in evidence and in this case, ignores facts which _are_ in evidence. Even so, I did not actually say that **cmkeller’s** argument was “invalid,” I was pointing out only that it did not take every fact into evidence and that it was rooted in different assumptions. > [@](#): > > What if someone were to offer an argument for atheism? The theists could respond by saying, “You just don’t want to believe in God,” and they could be right. That would not invalidate the atheist’s argument, though. Not in the least. This isn’t analogous at all. Your example does not address the argument itself. Mine did. ---
**Author:** ![Rucksinator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/898d66/32.png) [@Rucksinator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rucksinator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/69 "2005-12-03T20:00:14Z")
> [@Thudlow Boink](#): > > What I can’t wrap my brain around is why people would make a “god” with their own hands, out of metal or wood or whatever, and then worship it as a god. And yet, if the Bible is to be believed, people were all too ready to do just that (the most famous example being that incident with the Golden Calf), so that this got included as one of the Big No-No’s in the Ten Commandments. Some people probably can’t wrap their brain around why people would worship thin air. Alternate response: Do you carry a picture of your SO around with you? ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/70 "2005-12-03T21:02:59Z")
> [@ImaginalDisc](#): > > So Paul stood up in front of the council and said: > > People of Athens, I see that you are very religious. As I was going through your city and looking at the things you worship, I found an altar with the words, “To an Unknown God.” You worship this God, but you don’t really know him. So I want to tell you about him. This God made the world and everything in it. He is Lord of heaven and earth, and he doesn’t live in temples built by human hands. He doesn’t need help from anyone. He gives life, breath, and everything else to all people. From one person God made all nations who live on earth, and he decided when and where every nation would be." > > As in “See, I know your Unknown God, and he is cooler than all your others gods. Be the first on your block to get the Unknown God!” pretty slick, that Paul. A marketing genius–consider the substitution of baptism for circumcision, certainly removing a major hurdle to widespread conversion… ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/71 "2005-12-03T22:19:11Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Not a Hebrew scholar but if the text is accurately translated, the fact that it says not to place other gods “before me” implies that other gods exist (or how could they be given preeminence?). Yahweh also calls himself a “jealous God” which would be senseless if there was nothing to be jealous of. Well, if the early Israelites were, like their neighbors, generally convinced of a polytheistic worldview, _AND_ the reality was closer to Zoroastrian dualism, this might have been a good way for One True God to introduce himself. That is, if there is only one true god, but many shades capable of pretending to be gods, that one god not only still could have been perceived through a henotheistic lens for a long time, but might have encouraged it. In any case, it’s conceivable that the reality of God is a form of monotheism, while a race with a partially legitimate prophetic tradition thinks in henotheistic terms. Hence the references. > [@](#): > > The supporting evidence for henotheism (if not flat out polytheism) in Judea is pretty strong in the archaeology until about the 7th or 8th century BCE. Yahweh actually had a girlfriend at one point. There are hundreds of figurines and images of a goddess called Asherah who is identified in inscriptions as a consort of Yahweh, or as “Yahweh’s Asherah.” > > Like I said before, there is no strong evidence of a montheistic culture in Judea until post-exillic times. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/72 "2005-12-04T03:46:51Z")
> [@JThunder](#): > > Do you have any historical or sociological evidence to support your claim? Or is this all empty speculation? Your Sarcasm Detector in your Humor Circuits needs tweaking. > [@JThunder](#): > > You’ve made that rather grandiose and all-encompassing claim numerous times now, **Clothahump**. So far, I have yet to see you present even a shred of evidence for your claim. > > Hint: Citing a few religions that do have that goal doesn’t cut it. After all, you claim that ALL religions are guilty of this. Heck, I doubt that you could even name 10% of all the world’s religions, much less every single one of them. I also think your Cynicism Detector’s out. > [@Angels'Flight](#): > > Unfortunately (ain’t it always the way) it was lost in a shipwreck. > > But I just got a new tablet, even more puzzling. > [new tablet](http://www.texaschapbookpress.com/magellanslog58/judgments.jpg) Well _DUH!_ I mean, c’mon! How much more credible is “quantum superstring whatchamacallims” than “Apollo pulls sun across sky in flying chariot?” Gimme good ol’ fashioned flying Gods, who get pissed on the _vino_ and fight one another, and smite uppity mortals with plagues and curses (and plagues of curses!) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584/73 "2005-12-04T06:11:01Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Your Sarcasm Detector in your Humor Circuits needs tweaking. > > I also think your Cynicism Detector’s out. As I said, it’s by no means the first time that **Clothahump** has uttered that claim. Was he being sarcastic? Obviously not. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-men-create-the-false-gods/333584.md?page=3)