# Why did Michael feel he had to kill Fredo? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 17, 2001, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713 "2001-08-17T12:43:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/141 "2016-01-31T21:43:15Z")
> [@Oblong](#): > > I have a different take. > > I’ve always thought that Michael was sincere when he told Tom to tell Fredo “Tell him everything’s alright… that I know he didn’t know they would try to kill me”. > > Also, when leaving Cuba he yells “your still my brother” > > I didn’t think Michael decided to kill Fredo until Fredo lashed out at him in the boathouse. That’s when he realized he was beyond weak and stupid, he was jealous. I think this is exactly it. A Fredo who loves the family but who made a stupid mistake and was honestly repentant could be allowed to live. A Fredo who intentionally screwed over the family out of spite and jealousy would be a threat until the day he died. Fredo didn’t need to have power to be a threat to Michael. All he needed was the FBI and a witness protection program. Eventually, Fredo would have ratted him out. So Michael killed him. What makes the Godfather movies (and especially Godfather II) so great is the masterful job they did at depicting the corrupting influence of power and money. Don Corleone was a ‘great man’, but his blind spots just about got him killed and his trust in the people around him led to several of them stabbing him in the back. Michael’s character arc started out with him being an idealistic young military hero surrounded by a family who loved him, and who wanted nothing to do with the business, and ended up with him a ruthless killer all alone in the world. The tragedy of it all was that he supposedly did it to protect the family, and in the end the logical result of the trail of violence that required resulted in the utter destruction of the family anyway. All that was left was naked ambition and hatred. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/142 "2016-02-01T01:54:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think this is exactly it. > > A Fredo who loves the family but who made a stupid mistake and was honestly repentant could be allowed to live. > > A Fredo who intentionally screwed over the family out of spite and jealousy would be a threat until the day he died. > > Fredo didn’t need to have power to be a threat to Michael. All he needed was the FBI and a witness protection program. Eventually, Fredo would have ratted him out. So Michael killed him. > > What makes the Godfather movies (and especially Godfather II) so great is the masterful job they did at depicting the corrupting influence of power and money. Don Corleone was a ‘great man’, but his blind spots just about got him killed and his trust in the people around him led to several of them stabbing him in the back. Michael’s character arc started out with him being an idealistic young military hero surrounded by a family who loved him, and who wanted nothing to do with the business, and ended up with him a ruthless killer all alone in the world. > > The tragedy of it all was that he supposedly did it to protect the family, and in the end the logical result of the trail of violence that required resulted in the utter destruction of the family anyway. All that was left was naked ambition and hatred. You are stripping all that is great out of it to obtain an “explanation” One brother killing another brother because he was disloyal to the family is shakespearian. This calculation is so much less than the film. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/143 "2016-02-01T01:56:19Z")
“He injured me.” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/144 "2016-02-01T03:34:38Z")
> [@Richard\_John\_Marcej](#): > > While I agree with just about everyone, how Godfather III is a mediocre to bad film and probably never should have been made, it does make me laugh that it has one of the most memorable lines that gets quoted a lot. > > “Just when I thought I was out… they pull me back in.” The worst thing to me about Godfather III was how good parts of it were. There were definitely flashes of the old brilliance- Michael’s stroke, the chopper strike, all of Keaton and Pacino’s scenes together had the chemistry of decades, etc.- but several factors, not all of the names of the, kept it from achieving the status of the others. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2016, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/145 "2016-02-01T04:08:49Z")
> [@DeptfordX](#): > > Having actually watched it again about a year ago GF3 isn’t _that_ bad. The lead weight around the film is Sofia Coppola who really is as bad as the legend depicts. I’m sure she’s a nice human being, and apparently a decent director behind the camera, but man don’t put her in front of one. Apparently it was originally supposed to be Winona Ryder. You’re correct. Ryder was the first choice but dropped out due to illness. Coppola then offered the role to Julia Roberts but she was busy. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/146 "2016-02-02T01:43:36Z")
Was Cardinal Lamberto right in hearing confession from an ill Michael Corleone? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/147 "2016-02-02T19:08:20Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > The tragedy of it all was that he supposedly did it to protect the family This is the big disconnect for me, its all supposed to be about “the family” and everything is done to protect “the family” but then he goes and kills various members of the family himself. Guess its not about the family so much after all. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/148 "2016-02-02T19:22:14Z")
> [@the\_diego](#): > > Was Cardinal Lamberto right in hearing confession from an ill Michael Corleone? Absolutely right to hear it. Whether or not to grant absolution is a whole other matter… ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/149 "2016-02-02T19:25:18Z")
It was not a disconnect for me. I always had a clear impression, in the novel and movies both, that the mobsters were totally full of shit. The whole “men of honor” act was just that. An act. No matter what they said, it all came down to the lust for power. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/150 "2016-02-02T19:39:31Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > This is the big disconnect for me, its all supposed to be about “the family” and everything is done to protect “the family” but then he goes and kills various members of the family himself. Guess its not about the family so much after all. That’s the ‘corrupting’ part. In the end, it just comes down to money and power. Ostensibly the goal was to gain this power and money to protect the family, but in the end it destroyed it. All that was left was money and power. This is the neverending story. It’s why politics are so dismal, why idealists become the establishment, why revolutionary leaders for causes wind up as despots with billions of dollars in hidden bank accounts while their movement lies in tatters around them. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/151 "2016-02-02T20:24:08Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > This is the big disconnect for me, its all supposed to be about “the family” and everything is done to protect “the family” but then he goes and kills various members of the family himself. Guess its not about the family so much after all. That’s not a bug, it’s a feature. The story is intended as a tragedy. Originally, Michael was full of good intentions and turned his back on his family’s criminality. However, when his father’s life was threatened, Michael fell back on the only thing he knew “worked” to protect him - violence. Gradually, he rationalizes taking over as the new boss, all in order to protect his family … but in doing so, he loses them utterly: some he ends up killing, his wife he drives away with his lies and manipulations - so he ends up utterly alone. Having ruined and corrupted everything good in his life. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/152 "2016-02-03T02:35:53Z")
In Puzo’s novel after Kay realizes Michael had Carlo killed (she and Connie had been working for years to get Carlo more accepted by the family and apparently was doing a good job with the Corleone-controlled unions), she takes the kids and goes to New Hampshire. Eventually Tom Hagen goes to retrieve. Eventually after dancing around, Tom finally levels with her. Yes, Michael had Tessio and Carlo killed. But only because both betrayed the family and if you let a traitor live, no one, including you or the kids, is safe. Upset with Michael being the godfather for Carlo’s kid and killing him (in the novel the executions happened days after the christening and not all at once)? Guess what Kay, you talked him into it. You went to college and you must recognize what a smart move it was to lull an enemy into complacency. Finally Tom tells Kay that if she repeats this conversion to Michael, then Tom is a dead man. Kay and the children are the only people Michael would never hurt. Kay returns and bonds with Mama Corleone, becoming a Catholic and praying for Michael’s soul. ``` Tom for the most part is pretty smart. He failed to see that the Five Families were laying low, waiting to kill Sonny, which Genco would have realized. But he is the only one who doesn't laugh when Michael says he will kill the NYPD captain and he figures out Michael and Vito are secretly building a new army under Rocco. So by that statement Michael is willing to kill Fredo if necessary. In someways Fredo gets a bad rap. He is usually described as weak but that's because he saw his father shot before his eyes...and Fredo was the son most devoted to his parents. Sonny is shocked by Fredo's appearance, saying he looks worse than Vito. But Michael saw military combat and he's seen tough guys fall to pieces in combat. I suppose the novel implies that Michael does go legitimate. In Sicily he understands why his parents'w generation are the way they are. But he also sees Sicily as a land of ghosts, corrupted by the Mafia. At the house where he stays, the Don has an uncle who is a doctor. But this guy got his degree by the mob who suggested strongly to the medical school professors what his grades should be. In America the doctor who diagnoses Lucy's problem, finds a doctor to perform the surgery and then tests it out to make sure it was done right, is a very competent doctor who ran afoul of the law in New York for performing abortions. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/153 "2016-02-03T03:22:47Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I think this is exactly it. > > A Fredo who loves the family but who made a stupid mistake and was honestly repentant could be allowed to live. > > A Fredo who intentionally screwed over the family out of spite and jealousy would be a threat until the day he died. > > Fredo didn’t need to have power to be a threat to Michael. All he needed was the FBI and a witness protection program. Eventually, Fredo would have ratted him out. So Michael killed him. And even a honestly repentant Fredo could have stupidly said something that could get back to one of Michael’s enemies. Alive, Fredo was both a threat via the FBI and Corleone family enemies and perceived as a weakness of Don Michael. I think the look that Michael and Al Neri exchanged at Mama Corleone’s funeral was Michael telling Neri to carry out his previous instructions. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/154 "2016-02-03T18:35:03Z")
About the only alternative for Fredo would have been lifelong house arrest. In one of the authorized sequels they made Fredo a closeted gay guy who’d once been molested by his priest. I thought this was hackier than anything Puzo ever wrote. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4bbf92/32.png) [@Darth\_Hamsandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Hamsandwich)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/155 "2016-02-03T18:46:15Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Finally Tom tells Kay that if she repeats this conversion to Michael, then Tom is a dead man. Michael became a master manipulator, pure and simple. He acquired this trait under his father’s tutelage, and from getting directly involved in the family business. I always imagined that it was Michael who sent Tom to talk to Kay with explicit instructions to stress the fact that he would be killed if Kay revealed the true facts of Carlo’s death. It makes sense, really: for one, it brings Kay back into the fold. And two, it enforces the idea that Kay should never ask Michael about his affairs. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/156 "2016-02-03T18:59:12Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > ``` > In someways Fredo gets a bad rap. > > ``` [Sure.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeJj9k851R0) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/157 "2016-02-03T19:02:22Z")
Refresh my memory…is it mentioned in the novel whether Fredo had made his bones? ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/158 "2016-02-03T19:08:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Cheatem\_Undhow](#): > > Who is Lucy, and what the heck is her “medical condition”? (Only seen the movies, never read the book…) I know this question is old, but I dont see anywhere it was answered in the thread. Lucy is a girl with whom Sonny has an affair, starting with a chance encounter at Mike’s wedding. She has a huge cavernous vagina. Sonny has a big giant rhinoceros penis, the only one that can make her feel like a natural woman. After the untimely demise, in an unfortunate tollbooth accident, of her provider of massive dong, she moves out west. A plastic surgeon, who apparently read _How the Grinch Stole Christmas_ backwards as a medical school text, operated on her yawning vajayjay, making it three sizes smaller. She is never again mentioned in the story, but presumably lived happily ever after. Word choice aside, that’s verbatim from the book. You can see how, in adapting the book for film, it was considered an easily excised tangent: Lucy is basically Tom Bombadil with a roomy birth canal. . ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_s\_Son](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19adc/32.png) [@Jim\_s\_Son](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jim_s_Son)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/159 "2016-02-03T19:58:40Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Refresh my memory…is it mentioned in the novel whether Fredo had made his bones? ``` I don't remember it. There is a part in the novel that Vito in the 1930s tries to organize the New York underworld into a more streamlined, efficient organization. An Irish gang refuses to see his wisdom and one suicidal member penetrates Vito's security screen. Sonny takes over and like a young Napoleon quickly suppresses the Irish gang. Perhaps Fredo helped him but it isn't stated. I suppose one minor benefit to having Lucy in Las Vegas is she is sent there by Vito (who felt Sonny took advantage of her) given points in the hotel as long as she passes back information. Later when Tom and Mike go to Las Vegas, they are astounded to find Fredo is having threesomes with cocktail waitresses. This explains to Mike and Tom why Vito is so upset with Fredo. A sexual prude, he considered Fredo's actions as sheer degeneracy. But good move, Francis Ford, in dropping the big vagina story. ``` ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2016, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713/160 "2016-02-03T21:22:49Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > But good move, Francis Ford, in dropping the big vagina story. I read somewhere that when Coppola first read the novel, he got to the part about Lucy’s plumbing problems, quit reading and decided not to do the movie. He had to be talked into finishing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-michael-feel-he-had-to-kill-fredo/76713.md?page=9)