# Why did MLB open an expansion team in MONTREAL? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 20, 2008, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137 "2008-07-20T07:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/21 "2008-07-21T04:29:58Z")
Another point to consider was that in 1969, Montreal was still considered Canada’s foremost city both economically and culturally. That’s why Expo 67 and the 1976 Olympics were held there instead of Toronto. (In contrast, Canada’s recent bids to get Summer Olympics are based out of Toronto.) In the ‘70s, there began a large exodus of English speakers from Montreal–both residents and businesses. That would end up deeply hurting the fan base. In a 1990 article in Sports Illustrated about the Expos’ woes, it noted only three players (none marquee signings) had signed as free agents with the Expos. It quoted several players as complaining that Montreal was almost bereft of Expos’ signage in bars and the like. They also didn’t like the fact that they could be in first place for several weeks and still only see 10-15 thousand in the stands. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/22 "2008-07-21T04:48:53Z")
[QUOTE=drm] Of definitely. I can’t complain one bit about that part of the experience. [/QUOTE] The joke being that the Expos moved to Washington, D.C. in 2005. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/23 "2008-07-21T17:35:28Z")
I always thought it was depressing that Tony Gwynn got hit #3,000 in front of a measly [13,000 people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Montreal_Expos_season#Tony_Gwynn.E2.80.99s_3000th_Hit). I’d like to think that even Candlestick would have drawn 20K, even though we sucked that year. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/24 "2008-07-21T17:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=Antigen] It was our shot at the series, but because players already making millions of dollars were asking for more money (which would likely make the drain of talent from Montreal get even worse in the long run, since we couldn’t afford the big bucks), the season was canceled. Most baseball fans were pretty disillusioned by that strike. The game lost a lot of its joy, at least to me. I was a kid at the time but I remember thinking it pretty sad that the Expos were denied their shot at the World Series because all the already-rich players everywhere wanted more money. [/QUOTE] As opposed to owners already making hundreds of millions of dollars who were asking for more, unilaterally sought to impose new work conditions on the players, wrecking the season. Behavior which was later ruled against by the NLRB and federal courts. But of course, it was the players’ fault. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/25 "2008-07-21T18:23:02Z")
[QUOTE=Troy McClure SF] I always thought it was depressing that Tony Gwynn got hit #3,000 in front of a measly [13,000 people](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Montreal_Expos_season#Tony_Gwynn.E2.80.99s_3000th_Hit). [/QUOTE] I was at the game when Pete Rose (during his brief stint with the Expos before returning to the Reds to end his playing career) made his 4,000th: April 13, 1984. I dunno what the attendance was, though. I don’t think the OP’s going to bother to return. I know I wouldn’t if my thread premise was shown to have seven or eight blatant misconceptions in it, but I have a sense of shame. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/26 "2008-07-21T18:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=villa] As opposed to owners already making hundreds of millions of dollars who were asking for more, unilaterally sought to impose new work conditions on the players, wrecking the season. Behavior which was later ruled against by the NLRB and federal courts. But of course, it was the players’ fault. [/QUOTE] The players stopped playing. At the time of the strike, baseball was operating without a CBA. The players could have rejected the owners’ proposal (which would have instituted a salary cap, horror of horrors, and also, by the way, allocated record amounts for pension and benefits) and continued to play through the World Series, then gone on strike after the season. They opted to strike during the season because it gave them more leverage. Which is fine, and their right in a free market. But it was the Player’s Association that made that decision, and they bear the responsibility for it. The players stopped playing. Nobody locked the doors. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/27 "2008-07-21T18:26:56Z")
Does Mr. **eggs** have any follow up questions? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/28 "2008-07-21T18:31:29Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] In North American pro sports, everything comes down to ownership. If an owner wants to leave Los Angeles to play in a mausoleum like Oakland, well, Oakland gets a football team and LA doesn’t. [/QUOTE] This is mitigated in MLB because of the antitrust exemption, which allows baseball to require that three-fourths of the owners approve franchise sale or relocation. As a result, MLB has seen fewer of the sudden, “whimsical” franchise moves than have other sports. The practical effect has been that owners have to go back to the politicians once, twice, three times before the other owners will allow the abandonment of a large market. And given the American political culture, the politicians eventually pony up. Were owners allowed to move in the aftermath of a first rejection, Chicago, Seattle, and San Francisco (among others) would have lost their teams. As you say, the Canadian political culture is different, and it was pretty clear that Quebec wasn’t going to subsidize a new stadium if MLB waited until Doomsday. Ergo, the move. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/29 "2008-07-21T18:49:12Z")
Getting way off the OP, but since it was trainwreck anyway. [QUOTE=storyteller0910] At the time of the strike, baseball was operating without a CBA. The players could have rejected the owners’ proposal (which would have instituted a salary cap, horror of horrors, and also, by the way, allocated record amounts for pension and benefits) and continued to play through the World Series, then gone on strike after the season. [/quote] I’m sure if the owners were willing to play temporarily using the players associations conditions, the players would have willing taken the field. Also, a salary cap, depending on how it was implemented, could have cost the players hundreds of millions of dollars. This wasn’t a minor issue. Saying record amounts doesn’t mean much as revenue is (mostly) always going up. You would expect each new deal to offer record amounts. It is more a question of how large a portion of the pie the players would get. Striking was the only leverage the players had. You can’t expect them to not use, and hope that the owners are feeling more generous when the season ends. Both sides share responsibility in this. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/30 "2008-07-21T18:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=garygnu] Does Mr. **eggs** have any follow up questions? [/QUOTE] I don’t think he thinks like that. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/31 "2008-07-21T19:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Getting way off the OP, but since it was trainwreck anyway. I’m sure if the owners were willing to play temporarily using the players associations conditions, the players would have willing taken the field. Also, a salary cap, depending on how it was implemented, could have cost the players hundreds of millions of dollars. This wasn’t a minor issue. Saying record amounts doesn’t mean much as revenue is (mostly) always going up. You would expect each new deal to offer record amounts. It is more a question of how large a portion of the pie the players would get. Striking was the only leverage the players had. You can’t expect them to not use, and hope that the owners are feeling more generous when the season ends. Both sides share responsibility in this. [/QUOTE] Probably, if you’re interested in this discussion, it should be held in a different thread. There’s not a prayer of having a nuanced conversation about the '94 strike in this one. But I think you’ll find me a firm anti-Players Union man, and not because I have any particular love for the billionaires, either. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/32 "2008-07-21T20:00:36Z")
[QUOTE=Hawkeyeop] Both sides share responsibility in this. [/QUOTE] Exactly. You listen to some and the poor hardpressed (billionaire) owners were victims. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2008, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/33 "2008-07-21T20:39:32Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] I was at the game when Pete Rose (during his brief stint with the Expos before returning to the Reds to end his playing career) made his 4,000th: April 13, 1984. I dunno what the attendance was, though. [/QUOTE] [48,060](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=198404130MON) ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/34 "2008-07-22T00:49:23Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I was at the game when Pete Rose (during his brief stint with the Expos before returning to the Reds to end his playing career) made his 4,000th: April 13, 1984. I dunno what the attendance was, though. [QUOTE=Frank] [48,060](http://www.baseball-almanac.com/box-scores/boxscore.php?boxid=198404130MON) [/QUOTE] Yeah, only because it was the Expo’s home opener, a double header. If it had been July, 15,000 would have been the number. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/35 "2008-07-22T01:15:13Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] Yeah, only because it was the Expo’s home opener, a double header. If it had been July, 15,000 would have been the number. [/QUOTE] I clicked some dates at random over at baseball-reference. It looks like they were drawing between 25,000 to 28,000 in July 84. So there. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137/36 "2008-07-22T01:31:16Z")
[QUOTE=Frank] I clicked some dates at random over at baseball-reference. It looks like they were drawing between 25,000 to 28,000 in July 84. So there. 🆒 [/QUOTE] Now, you’re correct. Sorry I was low on my guess. They were certainly drawing many more than the Cleveland Indians that year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-mlb-open-an-expansion-team-in-montreal/457137.md?page=1)