# Why did modern architecture fail? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218 "2009-02-24T16:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/21 "2009-02-24T23:17:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :eek: Ya gotta be fuckin’ kiddin’ me! No really, it’s brought a lot of interest (and pride) to downtown L.A., and it’s almost always sold out. The [LA Philharmonic](http://www.laphil.com/)even uses an outline of the building on its logo. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/22 "2009-02-24T23:25:46Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Modern architecture is alive and well. The vast majority of office buildings are very modern places and look nothing like the offices of 100 or even 50 years ago. The cubicle is one of the most uniquely modern pieces of architecture ever. > > […] > > Modern houses have larger rooms. more open space, formal and informal spaces that flow into each other naturally, and large kitchens with eating spaces that connect to the rest of the house. And don’t forget that flats are still very much around. > [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > The modernists were compulsive planners - most pushed an all-encompassing scheme that only the heavy hand of central planning could have brought about. Yes, but I think you, and the OP and many people in this thread are mixing **modern** building - which is doing pretty well, thank you very much, and **modernist** building - which has left plenty of interesting and accepted new ideas, but has pretty much died out except as a form of conceptual art - if it has ever been more than that. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/23 "2009-02-24T23:34:33Z")
I suppose it depends on what you mean by “modernism”. Older modernism, especially up to about the 50’s, had some style and class. Not every building was a winner, but for the most part, they tried to have a distinctive but fitting and enjoyable look and were functional. But newer modern and post-modern architecture started going awry, I say. It became about having a unique look, and the fact is that people don’t want or need most shapes in their housing. Yeah, older houses had smaller rooms… but that was not an aesthetic choice. It was because small rooms were easier to heat, and homes were usually much smaller, and needed more functional space. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/24 "2009-02-24T23:36:52Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I really like the [Walt Disney Concert Hall.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Image-Disney_Concert_Hall_by_Carol_Highsmith_edit.jpg) > In addition to being a stunning building, it is beautiful on the inside as well, and has very good accoustics. I’ve attended several concerts there. Absolutely. To describe it as ‘non-functional’ is truly absurd. In a similar vein, I nominate [The Lowry](https://static.bafta.org/images/originals/the-lowry-2707.jpg). Completely at home in its post-industrial setting and fully acknowledging it, but also beautiful. It even makes a nod to a seafaring connection, with very gently undulating floors which, as you move from one part of the building to another, give the impression of being on water rather than land. Also, above all, it works really well in its various roles as opera house, theatre and art gallery, and is _popular_. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2009, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/25 "2009-02-24T23:56:42Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > No really, it’s brought a lot of interest (and pride) to downtown L.A., and it’s almost always sold out. Oh, I’m sure it’s brilliantly **functional.** But, from a purely external POV, esthetically indefensible. By L.A. standards, though . . . “You should see downtown L.A.! Some of the buildings there are more than 20 years old!” – Steve Martin, _L.A. Story_ ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/26 "2009-02-25T00:08:39Z")
When I think of modern architecture I get images of those ugly concrete skyscrapers in the suburbs we have in Europe. Very efficient - but so boring it robs the soul. [http://ing.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/77/22577\_620\_400.jpg](http://ing.dk/modules/xphoto/cache/77/22577_620_400.jpg) > [@aruvqan](#): > > The most boring person I ever met had an architectural digest quality house. She had the perfect danish modern flat, the perfect danish modern furniture. She had 3 whole magazines on the coffee table … she had a tiny writing desk that she did her monthly bills on, she had vases with floral arrangements, and a tv … no books, no hobbies, barely any food in the kitchen [model type, always dieting] She had the personality of a store manequin. Perfect hair nails and clothes though… I can’t stand Danish design – sucks the life out of you. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/27 "2009-02-25T00:12:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, I’m sure it’s brilliantly **functional.** But, from a purely external POV, esthetically indefensible. De gustibus non est disputandum. I love it. It’s an amazing and beautiful building. Too bad you cannot appreciate it, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/28 "2009-02-25T00:14:52Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > De gustibus non est disputandum. > > I love it. It’s an amazing and beautiful building. Too bad you cannot appreciate it, apparently. I can make similar things with crumpled aluminum. I think they’re pretty, too, but you don’t see me making billion-ton versions for kicks. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/29 "2009-02-25T00:23:09Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I can make similar things with crumpled aluminum. I think they’re pretty, too, but you don’t see me making billion-ton versions for kicks. If nothing else, at least Gehry can bring together such disparate personalities as **smiling bandit** and myself in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/30 "2009-02-25T00:25:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, I’m sure it’s brilliantly **functional.** But, from a purely external POV, esthetically indefensible. It’s a lovely building to be in and around. I know it might be hard for you to comprehend, but some of us actually LIKE this sort of thing. > [@](#): > > By L.A. standards, though . . . Here’s [another modernist L.A. monstrosity](http://losangeles.moleskinecity.com/wp-content/uploads/getty-center-address.jpg). And [this](http://blog.aia.org/mt-static/plugins/Ajaxify/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/imagemanager/images/favorite_architecture_images/stahl_twelve_600_x_548.jpg.jpg).:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/31 "2009-02-25T00:50:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [James Howard Kunstler’s website](http://www.kunstler.com/) includes an [Eyesore of the Month](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore.html) entry showing exactly what is wrong with modern architecture and often comparing it to more traditional architecture. It’s worthwhile reading through **all** the back entries. The most depressing part is how many of the buildings featured are **brand-new** or nearly so, like the new Seattle Public Library. Can you point out the “exactly” part? Also, I’m sure you’re aware that the Seattle Library is beloved by its staff and its users. (stipulated: you can find isolated dissent) Same for Disney Hall, Diamond Ranch HS, Museum of Folk Art, etc, etc ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/32 "2009-02-25T00:56:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Oh, I’m sure it’s brilliantly **functional.** But, from a purely external POV, esthetically indefensible. Yes it is defensible as such, with the answer ‘I like it’. > [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I can make similar things with crumpled aluminum. I think they’re pretty, too, but you don’t see me making billion-ton versions for kicks. OK, go ahead, design something which is also a functioning building, which has meaningful use of space inside appropriate to its purpose, which looks like your crumpled aluminium. ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/33 "2009-02-25T01:10:30Z")
In defense of Gehry, he designs as many attractive and functional buildings as he does ugly ones. It’s just that the ugly ones are more memorable… they stick out like a sore thumb, instead of blending into their surroundings. Now, in terms of Good Gehry… The Art Gallery of Ontario recently did a major renovation featuring an addition designed by Gehry (some photos [here](http://www.designboom.com/contemporary/art_gallery_of_ontario.html), [here](http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/08/11/18/) and [here](http://wvs.topleftpixel.com/08/11/27/)) IMO, it’s gorgeous. The main atrium on the second floor feels like the belly of a ship, with huge solid wood beams curving around you, and it’s actually enjoyable to walk up those crazy looping staircases and the winding ramp just inside the front doors. However, this non-Gehry [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_College_of_Art_&_Design) piece of crap that’s right next door? Not so gorgeous, though I have to admit I’m coming to appreciate its cheeky awfulness. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/34 "2009-02-25T01:11:55Z")
I also like the Disney Concert Hall inside and out. And gehry’s guggenheim in bilbao spain is also stunning. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/35 "2009-02-25T01:27:28Z")
> [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](#): > > Also, I’m sure you’re aware that the Seattle Library is beloved by its staff and its users. [**This** library?!](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200406.html)_sigh_ No accounting . . . Now, [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Washington_Library_Center) is a **library!** Or [this!](http://www.jaxpubliclibrary.org/lib/branches/main.html) I’ve been in both. Dignified, functional, commodious, **and** they really **relate** to the built surroundings! That’s one of the worst things about starchitecture, they design it as if it might be plunked down anywhere and it doesn’t matter where. Good example [here.](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200603.html) Or [here.](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200507.html) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/36 "2009-02-25T01:42:33Z")
Hijack: I’ve sometimes wondered by Ayn Rand wrote an essentially political novel, [_The Fountainhead,_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead) about an architect. But, when you think about it, if she was going to make the alienated-genius hero an artist (rather than, say, an industrialist or inventor, as in _Atlas Shrugged),_ that was the only choice that would serve. Architects make things everybody has to look at, and live or work in; and what they make has social effects and implications. As (I think) Winston Churchill put it, “We shape our buildings, and our buildings shape us.” But – which surely cannot have been Rand’s conscious intention – Roarke exemplifies all the worst aspects of starchitects. Yes, he has the integrity of his artistic vision, free from social pressures, free from antiquated esthetic conventions – but he thinks of **nothing else.** You get the feeling he would just exactly as satisfied if one of his designs were erected in the Gobi Desert, with nobody to use it or look at it, as if it were built in Manhattan. And the physical descriptions of his buildings evoke [Nazi architecture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_architecture) more than anything else – strange choice for a proto-Libertarian author! ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/37 "2009-02-25T01:49:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Now, in terms of Good Gehry… The Art Gallery of Ontario recently did a major renovation featuring an addition designed by Gehry (some photos here, here and here) Yeah, I really like something that looks like a bilboard that’s failing in a hurricane. Is it really against the law to put some architects in front of a firing squad? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/38 "2009-02-25T02:00:29Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Is it really against the law to put some architects in front of a firing squad? Not if you call it performance art! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Mahna\_Mahna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e47c2d/32.png) [@Mahna\_Mahna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahna_Mahna)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/39 "2009-02-25T02:01:17Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Yeah, I really like something that looks like a bilboard that’s failing in a hurricane. > > Is it really against the law to put some architects in front of a firing squad? I’m going to guess you stopped looking after the first photo I linked, because that particular bit of the building is only visible if you’re directly facing the northeast corner. Perhaps you’d like to take a look at the dozens of other photos that show a functional, airy, bright gallery space? Or the grand expanses of warm natural woods and gentle curves? Or what that “billboard” looks like when you’re standing on the other side of it? The architects who belong in front of firing squads are the ones who churn out thousands of bland, generic, Stepford McHouses for new subdivisions (or worse yet, those who design those same homes to replace older, smaller bungalows in established neighbourhoods)… because Og forbid a house actually have some character. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/40 "2009-02-25T02:19:24Z")
> [@Mahna\_Mahna](#): > > The architects who belong in front of firing squads are the ones who churn out thousands of bland, generic, Stepford McHouses for new subdivisions (or worse yet, those who design those same homes to replace older, smaller bungalows in established neighbourhoods)… because Og forbid a house actually have some character. Like [this?](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200708.html) Or [this?](http://www.kunstler.com/eyesore_200608.html) Problem is, it’s a challenge to get anything like that built nowadays. Hard to find the materials unless you scavenge them from demolished buildings. Might even be against (modernist-influenced) zoning codes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218.md?page=3)