# Why did modern architecture fail? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218 "2009-02-24T16:53:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/141 "2009-02-27T21:27:55Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Most of his actual innovations failed and nobody uses them, however. > > Edit: Actually, I can’t think of a single one which succeeded. Not that I particularly have a dog in this fight, but I believe you are quite incorrect in your analysis. FLW is NOT my favorite Architect by a long shot, but as I am myself a member of this noble profession that you all are denigrating, I at least feel I should stick up for old Frank. I have responded to these types of threads before and vowed to stay out of this one–but I thought if nothing else I should correct this statement. Just off the top of my head I believe that the esteemed Mr. Wright takes responsibility for designing wall hung water closets, steel furniture, sealed dual glazed windows and glass doors. If I am not mistaken he also claims to have invented air conditioning in buildings as well as radiant heated flooring. I haven’t the time nor inclination to verify this—but it is what I recall from graduate school. As I recall these were all innovations he used in the Larkin Building in Buffalo. I have used all of these in my buildings and I imagine they are in use pretty much around the world. So his inventions were not failures. I personally think he was an asshole and an egomaniac, but overall I think he was a successful Architect who still has influence today. As I recall from earlier threads you are not a fan of FLW, whereas the OP is totally infatuated with FLW, and against modern architecture–but you can’t separate the two in my opinion. The OP in my opinion is misguided in his attempt to portray that FLW and Gehry are different. They are both egomaniacs who impose their architectural vision on everyone. Whether history will treat Mr. Gehry the same is still an unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/142 "2009-02-27T21:34:33Z")
Missed the edit window! I forgot that his son invented Lincoln Logs! One of my favorite toys as a kid, in fact I would say it influenced me to become an Architect. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/143 "2009-02-27T22:56:10Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > He pretty much single-handedly invented the concept of homes with open floor plans, which, as pointed out earlier in the thread, is the default for homes these days. Several centuries of Japanese architecture disagree with this one. Not that I don’t think FLW was innovative, BTW, but I think you give him a leeetle too much credit here. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/144 "2009-02-28T00:14:55Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > :: post snipped, hijack continued:: > > Actually, the inspiration for the buildings is more like [this](http://www.fallingwater.org/), or [this](http://www.designmuseum.org/media/item/4957/-1/116_11Lg.jpg). Rand _really_ dug Frank Lloyd Wright. Roark, as far as I can tell, was based on Wright. [Linky](http://www.objectivistcenter.org/cth--24-Wright_Rand.aspx). > > Slee Maybe so, as a character; but Rand’s description of the mansion Roarke builds for a millionaire sounds a lot more like Speer’s Chancellery than Wright’s Fallingwater. ---
**Author:** ![vison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e47774/32.png) [@vison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vison)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/145 "2009-02-28T00:50:12Z")
Rand actually had Wright design a house for her, but when the time came to do it, she decided she couldn’t leave New York City or wherever the hell she lived, so the house was never built. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/146 "2009-02-28T01:07:47Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Several centuries of Japanese architecture disagree with this one. Not that I don’t think FLW was innovative, BTW, but I think you give him a leeetle too much credit here. Of course, you are right, and clearly FLW was heavily influence by Japanese design. So, my word “invented” is inappropriate, but he certainly was an innovator in terms of applying the open floor plan to Western usage, and making it palatable to Western tastes. I think it was clearly his use of this type of floor plan that ultimately has led to it being so widely used today. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/147 "2009-02-28T07:43:03Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > I think it was clearly his use of this type of floor plan that ultimately has led to it being so widely used today. Not going to argue with that. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/148 "2009-03-01T18:19:42Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > Of course, you are right, and clearly FLW was heavily influence by Japanese design. So, my word “invented” is inappropriate, but he certainly was an innovator in terms of applying the open floor plan to Western usage, and making it palatable to Western tastes. I think it was clearly his use of this type of floor plan that ultimately has led to it being so widely used today. Ah, so he “invented” open floor plans the way Elvis Presley “invented” rock ‘n’ roll? And air-conditioning? Radiant heat flooring? Double-glazed windows? Are you insane? How many centuries do you think he lived? ---
**Author:** ![Hakuna\_Matata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hakuna\_Matata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hakuna_Matata)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/149 "2009-03-01T18:57:18Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Ah, so he “invented” open floor plans the way Elvis Presley “invented” rock ‘n’ roll? And air-conditioning? Radiant heat flooring? Double-glazed windows? Are you insane? How many centuries do you think he lived? Do you have a cite that someone else invented these things? Hey as I mentioned before I have not great love for this guy, but here is a cite that states ‘he’ professes to have invented these items. The double glazed window I am likely to believe without further research. I am certainly open to having my ‘double-glazed window’ statement challenged, but you need to provide some alternative so we can discuss it. [http://wrightnowinbuffalo.com/whattodo/wright\_legacy.asp#larkin](http://wrightnowinbuffalo.com/whattodo/wright_legacy.asp#larkin) So to answer your question I don’t believe I am insane (you will need to verify that with my wife)–but do you have some other proof that someone else invented double glazed windows? Now whether he ‘invented’ the other items you stated are open to debate and that word is a bit of a misnomer since no really ever invents anything. But he certainly popularized the concept of using those ideas in modern homes which I think is what **Sarafeena** meant. ---
**Author:** ![Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/48db29/32.png) [@Key\_Lime\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Key_Lime_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/150 "2009-03-01T20:28:02Z")
Reyner Banham’s **The Architecture of the Well-tempered Environment** is probably the best place to read about Wright’s technological contributions. (Banham was a very well-respected architectural historian.) Some highlights: [ul] [li]He does not dispute Wright’s claim that the Larkin Building (1906) was the first air-conditioned building.[/li][li]The Prairie houses of the same period were “radical improvements” and “triumphs of environmental art.”[/li][li]Wright was one of the first to integrate electrical lighting in the architectural plan, and made a major contribution in terms of indirect lighting.[/li][/ul] Elsewhere I believe it is established that Wright’s Johnson Wax Building (1936) was the first use of radiant floor heating in America (the idea came from Japan). And of course this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of Wright’s contribution to architecture. ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/151 "2009-03-02T15:18:38Z")
I believe some baths built by the Romans had radiant floor heating, but I’d believe FLW was inspired by the Japanese. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/152 "2009-03-02T17:07:24Z")
> [@Hakuna\_Matata](#): > > Do you have a cite that someone else invented these things? Hey as I mentioned before I have not great love for this guy, but here is a cite that states ‘he’ professes to have invented these items. The double glazed window I am likely to believe without further research. I am certainly open to having my ‘double-glazed window’ statement challenged, but you need to provide some alternative so we can discuss it. > > [http://wrightnowinbuffalo.com/whattodo/wright\_legacy.asp#larkin](http://wrightnowinbuffalo.com/whattodo/wright_legacy.asp#larkin) > > So to answer your question I don’t believe I am insane (you will need to verify that with my wife)–but do you have some other proof that someone else invented double glazed windows? Now whether he ‘invented’ the other items you stated are open to debate and that word is a bit of a misnomer since no really ever invents anything. But he certainly popularized the concept of using those ideas in modern homes which I think is what **Sarafeena** meant. Yes, that is what I meant (and even clarified, 3 days before **Nametag’s** post). So, no, **Nametag** , I am not insane, thank you for asking. My point was that he revolutionized the way homes were designed in the US. I agree with **Hakuna Matata** that using the word “invented” is not appropriate here (another admission I made in my previous post). But it is certainly an interesting contrast to see the interior of, say, my own house (built in 1894) and the interior of other Oak Park houses that were designed by Wright. My house has a long hallway on both floors, with doors that lead into small, enclosed rooms. It is very typical of the period. Wright’s houses have rooms that flow into one another. Go to any new development, and you will see floor plans much more like his than typical Victorian architecture. Even new homes that are designed to look like Queen Anne homes on the outside have open floorplans. So, he definitely had a vision, inspired by typical Japanese design, that has been realized. His idea of designing a home to flow with the landscape with long, low lines was also pretty much unheard of at the time, and for many years was ubiquitous among family homes in average neighborhoods. I guess one could claim that this design style would have sprung up organically with no FLW to inspirie it, but if you are going to make that claim, it would be interesting to see some support for it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/47e85d/32.png) [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Lance_Murdoch)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/153 "2009-03-02T22:42:48Z")
[Asymmetrical](http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/constable_hay_wain.jpg) [Symetrical](http://artcess.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/rothko.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218/154 "2009-03-02T23:40:23Z")
> [@Captain\_Lance\_Murdoch](#): > > [Asymmetrical](http://www.penwith.co.uk/artofeurope/constable_hay_wain.jpg) > > [Symmetrical](http://artcess.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/rothko.jpg) \ 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-modern-architecture-fail/487218.md?page=7)