# Why did North Dakota try to secede in the '30s? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 6, 2000, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898 "2000-11-06T03:31:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/21 "2011-11-23T20:38:51Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? "You’ve got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. “You know. Morons.” ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/22 "2011-11-23T21:05:08Z")
Punoqllads: > [@](#): > > Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/23 "2011-11-23T21:49:55Z")
Book titles on this topic, please? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2011, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/24 "2011-11-23T21:54:34Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/25 "2011-11-24T04:43:57Z")
Thanks for the additional info, and welcome to the SDMB, **northdakotatroy**. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/26 "2011-11-24T05:11:28Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Punoqllads: > > They genuinely believed that the bitch had set him up. Damn. Was all ready to quote that, and I was late, late. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/27 "2011-11-24T05:20:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Waitaminute, are you telling me that the population of North Dakota is so starved for amusement that they elected a governor who tried to make the state secede, and when he finished with that, they elected him again? And we trust these people with nukes? Oh, god, we’re all going to die aren’t we. While this has nothing do with the OP, it’s sort of interesting. When the LittleHook (age 42) started the first grade we lived in Grayson, Kentucky. The president of the school board had only a couple of years earlier gotten out of prison. He’d been the president of the school board earlier and was found to have embezzled a fair amount of coin. When he got out he was reelected. North Dakota has nothing on Kentucky in the entertainment arena. You may now continue your regulary scheduled posting. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/28 "2011-11-24T06:06:35Z")
What other states proposed, in any serious way, seceding after the Civil War? I’m guessing the former nation (?) Texas has done it a number of times. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/29 "2011-11-24T20:27:13Z")
Since the Civil War? None all that seriously. But Northern California has from time to time had folks who wanted to secede from Southern California, and Rick Perry got some attention last year when he said Texas just might want to secede again if those tax-n-spend libruls in Washington couldn’t get their act together. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/30 "2011-11-24T20:54:26Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > I’m guessing the former nation (?) Texas has done it a number of times. Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/31 "2011-11-24T23:36:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state. Can I declare myself an independent sovereign state? I remember reading a while ago about this Palestinian self-recognition thing that it involves having clear borders and some other things. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/32 "2011-11-25T01:47:06Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Not seriously. By the way, Hawaii was also an independent sovereign state. As was Vermont from 1777-1791: [Vermont Republic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_vermont) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/33 "2011-11-25T03:47:30Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As was Vermont from 1777-1791: [Vermont Republic - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_vermont) Hawaii had the advantage of actually being recognized as an independent state by other countries. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/34 "2011-11-25T16:45:35Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Can I declare myself an independent sovereign state? > > I remember reading a while ago about this Palestinian self-recognition thing that it involves having clear borders and some other things. Quoting myself: > [@](#): > > An incomplete list of the steps needed to become an independent nation: > [ol] > [li]Declare yourself one. And make sure you got yourself a decent population. No Sealand scenarios.[/li][li]Get recognition of your independence by a group of countries. The bigger and more powerful the countries the better. If some mixture of the US/Britain/Russia/China recognizes you as an independent power, you’re pretty golden. Albania, not so much.[/li][li]Finally, protect your borders - from the inside out. If you can’t establish some military control against external forces, you can’t rightly be considered a country. Furthermore, if you can’t maintain internal order, no country do you have.[/li][/ol] [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14004913#post14004913](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14004913#post14004913) ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/35 "2011-12-19T20:00:43Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Hey, A fellow Nodakian! > > Just as long as you aren’t from Minot…we’ll be ok. 🙂 What do you have against Minotaurs? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/36 "2011-12-19T20:20:39Z")
Well, apparently they call themselves minotaurs, so there’s one strike right there. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/37 "2011-12-19T23:15:51Z")
Book titles on this topic, _please_? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/38 "2011-12-20T06:25:47Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Hawaii had the advantage of actually being recognized as an independent state by other countries. Brief history of California, as I think I understand it: – Part of Mexico, settled (sort of) by Spaniard soldiers and padres. – American businessmen gain foothold, foment revolt, gain enough power to declare independent Bear Flag Republic. – Bear Flag Republic lasts only a short while, soon petitions to become part of United States. – Becomes the State of California. In retrospect, it can be seen that the American businessmen intended it to play out this way all along, because they saw it was to their advantage to become part of the United States rather than be part of Mexico. Brief history of Hawaii, as I think I understand it: – Independent nation, islands united by Kamehameha to create a dynasty, lastly ruled by Queen Liliuokalani. – Increasing presence of American businessmen, in particular the Dole and C&H barons; they gain enough economic power to foment revolt against Kamehameha dynasty; created republic. – Quickly petitions to be come part of the United States. – Becomes a state. In retrospect, it can be seen that the American businessmen intended it to play out this way all along, because they saw it was to their advantage to become part of the United States rather than be ruled by independent local natives. Yes, history repeats itself. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/39 "2011-12-20T13:15:34Z")
Texan history more or less follows the same pattern. But even taking them all together, Hawaii is the one case in which the country was already an independent state. It wasn’t manufactured by white settlers. ---
**Author:** ![Ispolkom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47774/32.png) [@Ispolkom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ispolkom)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898/40 "2011-12-20T14:27:08Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Book titles on this topic, _please_? Morlan, Robert L. _Political Prairie Fire: The Nonpartisan League 1915-1922_. (St. Paul: Minnesota Historical Society Press, 1955, 1985). The standard work on Bill Langer’s political rise. I remember a biography of Langer being advertised on television back in the 1970s, but can’t find any sign of it. Some research libraries might have this book, but given its date of publication I’d have doubts about its impartiality: Holzworth, John M. _The fighting governor : the story of William Langer and the state of North Dakota_ Chicago: The Pointer Press, 1938. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-north-dakota-try-to-secede-in-the-30s/39898.md?page=3)