# Why did people hate gays for so long? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703 "2010-06-27T20:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/41 "2010-06-28T02:38:35Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If a gay man could get away with having his cock sucked without sucking cock, wouldn’t he try, despite how much porn stars seem to enjoy the sucking of cock, how much fun could it really be to jerk your head back and forth like a chicken pecking for seeds while a penis stabs the back of your throat? First of all, there are many gay men (and straight women) who enjoy sucking cock, but for a variety of reasons don’t want reciprocation. I am eternally grateful that there are men like that in the world. 🙂 I have even known some straight men who enjoyed sucking cock. And you seem to have a rather distorted notion of what oral sex is like. You’ve either been watching the wrong porn, or never been with anyone who enjoyed doing it. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/42 "2010-06-28T03:43:50Z")
People are afraid that it’s contagious. Sexual arousal is a rather involuntary response. The existence of homosexuals makes homosexuality a reality, so heterosexuals worry that exposure to it might someday trigger a response and they too will turn gay, with all the disgusting implications. So they act out with hostility to the idea, to reassure themselves as well as others. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/43 "2010-06-28T09:34:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It’s fairly unknowable. According to the Bible, God just came down from outer space and told Moses the rules, without feeling any particular need to tell us his reasoning. That means that we’re left to guess what “his” (or the people who wrote the Bible’s) motive was. > > Looking through the Bible though, it doesn’t seem to be so much that “gay” is bad so much as not doing your best to turn semen into babies is bad. Sex with men,\*\* sex with butts, sex with faces, sex with hands,\*\* etc. are all cases where it’s pretty darn certain that a baby isn’t going to be born. This could either descend from a philosophical view about life – that wasting your seed is equivalent to murder – or to a tribal view that more Israelites meant a stronger, safer nation and so it was the duty of every man to make as many babies as he could. Except there are actually no Biblical laws against the bolded area- Rabbinical & Church teachings, yes- Biblical laws, no. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/44 "2010-06-28T10:58:15Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I have even known some straight men who enjoyed sucking cock. > > . really flexible men I bet 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/45 "2010-06-28T12:09:05Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > My question is why? Because its an evolutionary cul-de-sac, and religions in the past needed followers so they forbade it, and now that the world is more populated and advanced, mostly western cultures have to a degree eschewed religion, less people give a shit what two other people do in their private lives? ---
**Author:** ![Punisher\_11B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9de0a6/32.png) [@Punisher\_11B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punisher_11B)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/46 "2010-06-28T12:28:50Z")
Try to plug a lamp into a lamp and see if it works. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/47 "2010-06-28T12:33:35Z")
Because I was told to hate them. I was raised in a little backwards almost out of time town on a tobacco farm in East TN. My immediate family told me to hate gays, blacks, city slickers, rock music, non-fried foods, and most of all atheists. It took me a while to ask why, and I got answers that were as ignorant as the premise. As I got older I was told I was wrong to read books for fun, sing anything but hymns, dance ever, and women naturally hated sex and if someone didn’t use a good lock they didn’t care about it. Then I went to college, the first in all generations in memory of my family to do so. Of my graduating class, less than 5% went to college of any kind. Then I joined the military and saw some of the rest of the world, and in my late 20’s I just began to realize the ignorance I was raised with, by 30 I rejected everything. At my 20 year HS reunion I found that at least 90% of my class never left that town and pretty much were as mired in stupid beliefs as when I left. All this rambling, if you made it this far is my answer. Because people are raised in ignorance and they tend to stay that way because it is hard to fight your way out of it. I suspect to maybe lesser degrees and slightly larger towns this holds true. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/48 "2010-06-28T12:44:11Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > On the other hand, we don’t tend to throw people in jail for sodomy any more. While we may not throw people in jail for sodomy, we definitely put people in jail accepting that they will likely be sodomized. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/49 "2010-06-28T12:50:24Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > While we may not throw people in jail for sodomy, we definitely put people in jail accepting that they will likely be sodomized. That doesn’t really have anything to do with the issue. I think a better response to **friedo** ’s point is that anti-sodomy laws are still on the books and were only ruled unconstitutional a few years ago. And just the other day people on this board were discussed efforts (at least in Texas) to start enforcing those laws again. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/50 "2010-06-28T13:35:11Z")
> [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > really flexible men I bet 🙂 Those men never make it out of bed in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/51 "2010-06-28T13:47:25Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Because I was told to hate them. > … > All this rambling, if you made it this far is my answer. > > Because people are raised in ignorance and they tend to stay that way because it is hard to fight your way out of it. I suspect to maybe lesser degrees and slightly larger towns this holds true. I know a lot of well educated folks who hold those same backwards beliefs and have concocted rationales for why they are reasonable beliefs. In my totally anecdotal experience, doctors seem somewhat homophobic with higher frequency than other well educated folks, not a racist bunch in the crowd, but more than half seem homophobic. Its weird, they have learned the lessons of history and they understand why it is wrong to be racist but they don’t understand that the same rationale appplies to homophobia. I figured doctors would be most likely to understand the human condition but apparently not. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/52 "2010-06-28T14:16:57Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I know a lot of well educated folks who hold those same backwards beliefs and have concocted rationales for why they are reasonable beliefs. In my totally anecdotal experience, doctors seem somewhat homophobic with higher frequency than other well educated folks, not a racist bunch in the crowd, but more than half seem homophobic. Its weird, they have learned the lessons of history and they understand why it is wrong to be racist but they don’t understand that the same rationale appplies to homophobia. > > I figured doctors would be most likely to understand the human condition but apparently not. A lot of educated people are exposed to a lot of different world views. Its like being exposed to the measles, it doesn’t always take. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/53 "2010-06-28T14:25:26Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Except there are actually no Biblical laws against the bolded area- Rabbinical & Church teachings, yes- Biblical laws, no. Sodomy is forbidden. I am aware that the modern position is that the crime of the Sodomites is unknown and unknowable so to say that “sodomy” equates to sex that has no chance of producing babies is on a loose foundation. But, so far as I’m aware there’s no evidence that “sodomy” ever meant anything different, so while the Bible might not describe what the Sodomites did, that the church had rules against these sorts of sexual acts from times ancient in spite of no clear Biblical text, and that people sure seem to have thought that the Sodomites were sexually deviant from times ancient both indicate to me that sodomy means what we think it means, that it always has, and that the Bible forbids it. Retroactively deciding that the word “sodomy” doesn’t have any meaning is just being intellectually dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/54 "2010-06-28T14:47:20Z")
Because it’s hard enough trying to figure out about hetero sex when the object of your attraction is right there in the open and there are social guides to help us approach one another. Hetero sex is complex enough for most of us. There’s power politics involved in the dating game too. So man-on-man sex can seem out of place and icky, sorry, when you first stubble across it, like when I was 15 and an old guy tried to stick his hand down my pants. The first time I saw two guys making out on a street corner it was a WTF moment. Having no attraction for other men the very concept of two guys enjoying that just didn’t make sense to me. These days I know enough gay people to understand that it is real and not some affectation but that doesn’t mean that I understand the attraction. So, the hate is based on the intensity of the subject (sex) and the lack of understanding of its many, many complexities. Gay people have been pushed into the shadows for a long time. I wasn’t taught to dislike gay people; I wasn’t taught anything at all about them nor did I come across many instances where the subject came up because nobody talked about it. These days the subject ( both hetero and gay sex) is a lot more open so that we can comfortably talk about it and some of the hate has gone away. Maybe in another generation it won’t be an issue if we can avoid pushing people back into the closet. I see a huge difference in the conversations I’ve had with my son about sex (so many aspects to cover) and the complete lack of information in my generation. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/55 "2010-06-28T15:10:01Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Sodomy is forbidden. I am aware that the modern position is that the crime of the Sodomites is unknown and unknowable so to say that “sodomy” equates to sex that has no chance of producing babies is on a loose foundation. But, so far as I’m aware there’s no evidence that “sodomy” ever meant anything different, so while the Bible might not describe what the Sodomites did, that the church had rules against these sorts of sexual acts from times ancient in spite of no clear Biblical text, and that people sure seem to have thought that the Sodomites were sexually deviant from times ancient both indicate to me that sodomy means what we think it means, that it always has, and that the Bible forbids it. Retroactively deciding that the word “sodomy” doesn’t have any meaning is just being intellectually dishonest. Actually, the “modern interpretation” is that the “crime of the Sodomites” was inhospitality and lack of compassion. And, frankly, isn’t it about time that the modern world started to put ignorant Iron Age superstition about sexuality behind it? I’m not asking 5000 year old sheepherders for advice on how to diversify my portfolio. Why would I ask them for advice on who to sleep with? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/56 "2010-06-28T15:15:46Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I’m not asking 5000 year old sheepherders for advice on how to diversify my portfolio. Why would I ask them for advice on who to sleep with? Remember- “Baaa!” means “No!” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/57 "2010-06-28T15:33:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Actually, the “modern interpretation” is that the “crime of the Sodomites” was inhospitality and lack of compassion. True, that skipped my mind. And I agree that it is theoretically possible that this was the intended original reading. But so far as I’m aware,\* there’s no particular evidence that anyone ever believed that until modern day. At the very least, it has been the stance of most of the European and Islamic world for the last couple of thousand years. - And feel free to point out any evidence to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/58 "2010-06-28T16:53:08Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > True, that skipped my mind. And I agree that it is theoretically possible that this was the intended original reading. But so far as I’m aware,\* there’s no particular evidence that anyone ever believed that until modern day. At the very least, it has been the stance of most of the European and Islamic world for the last couple of thousand years. > > - And feel free to point out any evidence to the contrary. Well, there is Ezekiel 16:49: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/59 "2010-06-28T19:25:13Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Well, there is Ezekiel 16:49: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.” I do understand that there is text in the Bible which supports the modern interpretation, but given that there’s no evidence that anyone even came up with that interpretation until modern day makes it seem unlikely that this is the accurate or a meaningful reading. Ezekiel 16 is about women, for example. It has nothing to do with semen, procreation, or anything. It supposes a reason for God being angry at Sodom’s _women_, but doesn’t comment on the men, and it seems more likely that God would destroy a city for what its men do than what its women do. Ezekiel 16 also spends most of its time talking about prostitution, promiscuity, and having sex for pleasure’s sake. After accusing the Israelite women of this, it says that “Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. **You not only walked in their ways and copied their detestable practices** , but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they.” (Bolding added.) I.e. the Samarians and the Sodomites practiced prostitution, promiscuity, and sex for pleasure’s sake. It continues on to point out that the Sodomites were arrogant, etc. but that seems to be an accusation of stuff they did that the Samarians _didn’t_, not the sole nor principal accusation (going by the quantity of text that deals with the various issues). While this still doesn’t get into “sodomy”, it still seems to be fairly concerned with sex and sexual license. And it seems just as likely that sodomy doesn’t come into it because it’s a discussion of women. > **[Bible Gateway passage: Ezekiel 16 - New International Version](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016&version=NIV)** > > Jerusalem as an Adulterous Wife - The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, confront Jerusalem with her detestable practices and say, ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says to Jerusalem: Your ancestry and birth were in the land of the Canaanites;... ---
**Author:** ![Arcite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/67e7ee/32.png) [@Arcite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arcite)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703/60 "2010-06-29T00:27:11Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > True, that skipped my mind. And I agree that it is theoretically possible that this was the intended original reading. But so far as I’m aware,\* there’s no particular evidence that anyone ever believed that until modern day. At the very least, it has been the stance of most of the European and Islamic world for the last couple of thousand years. Not to mention one of the New Testament authors, [Jude](http://esv.scripturetext.com/jude/1-6.htm), who clearly seemed to think that at least part of the reason for Sodom’s and Gomorrah’s destruction was their sexual immorality: > [@Jude](#): > > 6And the angels who did not stay within their own position of authority, but left their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains under gloomy darkness until the judgment of the great day— 7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire,d serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-people-hate-gays-for-so-long/544703.md?page=4)