# Why did Peter Jackson's LOTR movies succeed & The Hobbit fail? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 4, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513 "2014-02-04T20:32:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/21 "2014-02-04T22:58:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Right. > > I dispute the OP’s initial premise. There’s been no failure except in our expectations. I dispute your premise. I think that the The Hobbit has been a failure of film making. In many ways these are just badly made films. I am one of those that read and reread the Hobbit dozens of times as a kid. For somebody like me to be actually wanting the film to just end already takes quite some doing, but PJ pulled it off. The “action” in these films is just repetitive to the point of boredom, looks like a video game and is utterly devoid of tension. How on earth are we ever going to be excited by the Battle of Five Armies when for two films now Legolas and the dwarves have been cutting through goblins in their thousands with nary a scratch? Its quite an accomplishment to make a fan like me apprehensive about watching the battle of five armies on the big screen, but already I know the last film is just going to be an unrelenting slog of crash bang wallop from Smaugs attack to the Dol Guldor attack to the big scrap at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/22 "2014-02-04T22:59:08Z")
Lots of good comments from **Shodan** and others. I’ll just add one more. Peter Jackson is a mediocre director with questionable tastes who has almost no chance at all to transcend the source material. I don’t mind many of the changes, as changes in and of themselves. I mind that they so many of them are so poorly conceived, and often equally poorly executed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/23 "2014-02-04T22:59:29Z")
I’m sure that the studios would love to do something with the Silmarillion, but they don’t have the rights, and there’s no chance in the Outer Darkness of them getting ahold of them. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/24 "2014-02-04T23:12:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m sure that the studios would love to do something with the Silmarillion, but they don’t have the rights, and there’s no chance in the Outer Darkness of them getting ahold of them. Who then, does hold the film rights? ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/25 "2014-02-04T23:13:38Z")
LOTR - way more material in the books than you could ever fit into even 3 3hr movies Hobbit - way less material than you’d need even 1 2hr move to properly adapt, yet they still tried to make it into a bunch of 3hr movies ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/26 "2014-02-04T23:14:00Z")
Hobbit One grossed over one billion dollars. Hobbit Two has grossed over $850,000,000 so far. Yeah - those look like huge flops to me… ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/27 "2014-02-04T23:17:29Z")
There’s more to success than just making money. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/28 "2014-02-04T23:20:07Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > There’s more to success than just making money. True - but 48 fan boys in a hissy-fit huff do not a flop make. Sound to me like the same moaners and groaners who said LOTR was a horrible series of films and were crap. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/29 "2014-02-04T23:23:13Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > True - but 48 fan boys in a hissy-fit huff do not a flop make. The OP says in his first sentence that he’s not talking about the box office, and you’re the only one who’s used the word flop. He’s saying they failed artistically, at least compared to the LOTR movies. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/30 "2014-02-04T23:28:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Who then, does hold the film rights? The family. Christopher T is 89 though, so things might change on his death, but who knows really. JRRT sold the LotR and Hobbit rights when he was still alive. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/31 "2014-02-04T23:35:50Z")
I’d have liked to have seen del Toro direct the Hobbit movie (s), but it was not to be. I’m not sure he’d have delivered a light-hearted children’s adventure that gets a bit grimmer as it goes on, but I hope he wouldn’t have made something quite so “stretched, like butter spread over too much bread” as Peter Jackson has. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/32 "2014-02-04T23:39:22Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > Hobbit One grossed over one billion dollars. > Hobbit Two has grossed over $850,000,000 so far. > > Yeah - those look like huge flops to me… Please read the OP before you post. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/33 "2014-02-04T23:45:49Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Better source material. For me, this is it. LOTR is great source material. The Hobbit is a pleasant diversion without much that I found really memorable or compelling. It’s a nice book. So, take what I consider an inferior source (I know not everyone will agree that The Hobbit is not that exciting, but I think most would agree that LOTR is better) with too many characters then stretch it out too long and you get the Hobbit movies. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2014, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/34 "2014-02-04T23:49:03Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Please read the OP before you post. Ok, a fairly high rating, 28 awards, over a hundred noms, … So what _does_ make a film a success? Huge boxoffice, decent reviews, awards all count for naught vs the opinions of a couple of posters? By _any_ standard (other than the couple of posters on a MB standard :rolleyes: ) the film is a success. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/35 "2014-02-05T00:14:00Z")
I enjoyed the movies but I think it’s a fair question to ask. Because you’re comparing it to the best movie trilogy ever made (there I said it.) Some of which almost swept the Oscars. For me I agree with the “source material” complaint, and also the one about trying to shoehorn in the LOTR look and feel into a more light hearted source material. I actually enjoyed the added material and don’t mind that they padded it to make a trilogy. I actually like the look and the execution of the Necromancer subplot better than the book with the exception of the elf caverns and the look (but not execution) of Under the Mountain. I could have done without the overtness of the romance but I wouldnt have minded it if it had been a bit more subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/36 "2014-02-05T01:52:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > …decent reviews… The LOTR trilogy films received _stellar_ reviews. So stellar, that all three are still in the [IMDB Top 20](http://www.imdb.com/chart/top), while neither of the Hobbit movies that have been released crack the Top 250. Where you see decent, I see mediocre. So yes this is a clear step backwards. I still place the blame squarely at PJ’s feet. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/37 "2014-02-05T03:31:29Z")
As I’ve said in the past and others have said here, the problem is too much filler. _The Lord of the Rings_ is five times the length of _The Hobbit_. A shorter simpler story should have resulted in a shorter simpler movie. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/38 "2014-02-05T03:44:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > 28 awards, over a hundred noms, … **Return of the King** _alone_ won 133 awards and had 73 nominations. It tied the record for most Oscars ever won (11, including Best Picture.) \*\*Fellowship \*\*- 86 wins, 89 nominations - 13 of them Oscars, Best Picture nom. **The Two Towers** - 78 wins, 83 nominations - 6 of them Oscars, Best Picture nom. Compare that to: \*\*The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey \*\*- 10 wins, 44 nominations. Only 3 Oscar nominations, all in the Visual Effects/Production Design/Make-up categories. \*\*The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug \*\*- 2 wins, 24 nominations. Again just 3 Oscar noms for Sound & Visual Effects. (I’m not sure where you’re getting that **The Hobbit** won 28 awards and had over a hundred nominations…) Hell, **Star Wars** episodes 1-3 received many more awards & nominations than **The Hobbit**. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/39 "2014-02-05T03:45:30Z")
I guess this is pretty much what everyone else is saying, but… I don’t mind the idea of elaborating the original story, but for me, the elaborations in _The Desolation of Smaug_ basically added up to little more than the most generic of sword-and-sorcery tales. Tolkien’s unique voice was all but drowned in a spate of cartoonish mayhem. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513/40 "2014-02-05T03:45:58Z")
Hm… The only complaint I have is…you can’t scull a freight barge! (Well, also, in both movies so far, doesn’t anybody around here believe in safety railings?) FWIW, what I enjoyed most about Desolation of Smaug was the many different architectural styles. The nasty, harsh, brutal Dol Guldur stariways; the light, airy, free access of Thranduil’s halls; the geometical purity of the Kingdom Under the Mountain; and the thrown-together hodge-podge of Lake Town. The conceptual artists for this movie did a brilliant job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-peter-jacksons-lotr-movies-succeed-the-hobbit-fail/680513.md?page=3)