# Why did Russia and China really veto the resolution on Syria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803 "2012-02-04T23:47:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/21 "2012-02-05T05:54:49Z")
It would be really interesting if the Arab League actually did something ummm… diplomatic, like offering to broker a settlement. Kind of like what the UN would do if Russia and China didn’t object. Or even, subject Syria to sanctions. Sanctions that were internationally accepted. But, then it comes down to Syria’s allies. I don’t know. In a perfect world, the Arab League would be more useful. As it is, it is about as useful as SEATO was. \ I wish this stuff would just get better, but it isn’t. Is it the USA’s fault that Syria is self-destructing? If so, then we need to fix it, but I really don’t think it is. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/22 "2012-02-05T06:25:53Z")
> [@mutantmoose](#): > > There’s also the other nexus - the ba’athist party being socialist and Syria therefore being a long time ally of Russia. They are also China’s most important middle east ally - again the socialism thing is a factor there. ‘Socialist’, is such a great smear, you can make it about anything however obtuse and use it for any purpose however vulgar. The words connotation is bad in our modern lexicon and most using it have no idea what it even means. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/23 "2012-02-05T06:41:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t know if they could or couldn’t, or what would happen once they did. Are they supposed to occupy Syria afterwards and mediate the inevitable civil war? At least in Iraq you had basically just 2 ethnicities fighting each other (the Kurds were more or less comfortably safe in their own semi-autonomous region). In Syria, you’ve got the Sunni Arabs, the Christians, the Alawites, the Kurds, Palestinians, Turkmen… just to name the ones I’m familiar with off the top of my head. So, is there any chance of this ending with Assad gone and no ethnic cleansing or anything? ---
**Author:** ![BeaMyra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@BeaMyra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeaMyra)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/24 "2012-02-05T07:06:12Z")
> [@MOIDALIZE](#): > > Russia also has a naval base at Tartus, as well as significant gas and oil business there, and I believe they felt duped into allowing a greater military intervention in Libya than they intended. I agree with this. Even the Arab League said that NATO went too far And the population centers of Libya were pretty isolated as well. Syria is right in the midst of a volatile area. Also consider no one really knows what is going to happen long term in Egypt (still has fighting) or Libya. I mean no one wants to replace a dictator with someone worse. Turkey would not invade Syria unless attacked. Remember the Ottomans ruled Syria and France even gave to the new Turkish state, Alexandretta and the surrounding area back to the Turks, which did not go over well in Syria ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/25 "2012-02-05T07:24:52Z")
> [@BeaMyra](#): > > Turkey would not invade Syria unless attacked. Remember the Ottomans ruled Syria and France even gave to the new Turkish state, Alexandretta and the surrounding area back to the Turks, which did not go over well in Syria Who lives in Alexandretta, Turks or Arabs? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/26 "2012-02-05T08:23:11Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, is there any chance of this ending with Assad gone and no ethnic cleansing or anything? No. Not after so many years of rule by minority groups. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2012, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/27 "2012-02-05T16:56:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > So, is there any chance of this ending with Assad gone and no ethnic cleansing or anything? I honestly don’t know enough about it to say, but it’s hard to imagine. There are so many different ethnicities that historically don’t get along. I would be especially concerned about the Christians and the Kurds. And the Alawites. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2012, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/28 "2012-02-07T23:01:30Z")
[The Russian Foreign Minister is in Damascus meeting with Assad.](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201227144626387538.html) Whose army continues to shell Homs. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/29 "2012-02-08T00:09:03Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The Russian Foreign Minister is in Damascus meeting with Assad. Whose army continues to shell Homs. [/QUOTE] Not exactly a surprising turn of events. From the Russians perspective it makes perfect sense…they are betting that Assad et al will survive this intact, while at the same time making noises about how confident they are that peace will be restored to the region and even a wink to ‘enlarged Arab League mission in the country’ type stuff. Russia is not going to abandon their support for the current regime, BG…at least not until the writing is not only on the wall but pretty much chiseled into the granite on the tomb stone. Neither is China. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/30 "2012-02-08T01:52:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [The Russian Foreign Minister is in Damascus meeting with Assad.](http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/02/201227144626387538.html) Whose army continues to shell Homs. Are you implying that we should attack Russia for not supporting our desire to overthrow Assad? Or is this just a blog post? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/31 "2012-02-08T01:54:24Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Are you implying that we should attack Russia for not supporting our desire to overthrow Assad? Or is this just a blog post? 😕 It’s an important update relevant to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/32 "2012-02-08T02:22:18Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 It’s an important update relevant to the OP. It’s an important update that Russia supports Assad? We knew that, didn’t we? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/33 "2012-02-08T02:25:20Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > It’s an important update that Russia supports Assad? We knew that, didn’t we? It’s an important update that they seem to be going the extra inch, or, rather, flailing desperately to save something from the situation. Like to know what’s passing between Assad and Lavrov right now. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/34 "2012-02-08T02:27:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s an important update that they seem to be going the extra inch, or, rather, flailing desperately to save something from the situation. What are they trying to save from the situation? Are they attempting to stop a U.S. attack? Or what? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/35 "2012-02-08T02:31:02Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] It’s an important update that they seem to be going the extra inch, or, rather, flailing desperately to save something from the situation. Like to know what’s passing between Assad and Lavrov right now. [/QUOTE] They are merely trying to preserve the status-quo…like they pretty much always do. There is no change here at all. The only way Russia is going to change it’s tune is if Assad is hanging from a street pole…at that point they will probably try and work with whoever takes over, assuming they can, and keep doing business as usual. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/36 "2012-02-08T02:40:20Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > … if Assad is hanging from a street pole…at that point they will probably try and work with whoever takes over, assuming they can, and keep doing business as usual. I’m fairly bewildered as to why Europe and the U.S. seem to think that the Syrian rebels will support Europe and the U.S. should they gain power. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/37 "2012-02-08T02:43:06Z")
DO they think that?? If so, I agree…there is no reason to believe that. I’d guess that the Russians are unsure if anyone but Assad will continue to do business with them, which is probably why they want to maintain the status quo. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/38 "2012-02-08T02:46:51Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I’m fairly bewildered as to why Europe and the U.S. seem to think that the Syrian rebels will support Europe and the U.S. should they gain power. It’s more a sense that the world in general and the MENA in particular will be better off with one dicatorship less. I mean, it’s hard to regret anything that has happened lately in Tunisia or Libya or Egypt . . . even if it all ends with the Muslim Brotherhood everywhere in (and freely elected to) power. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/39 "2012-02-08T02:51:43Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > DO they think that? Why would we otherwise support an overthrow of Assad? Otherwise, we’re supporting the substitution of a reasonable dictatorship with a dictatorship of an unknown quality. We have even more interest in a stable Middle East then Russia does, even if we don’t realize it. If our government does not expect a new Syrian government to be even more supportive of us than the current one, then our actions and statements are inexplicable. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2012, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803/40 "2012-02-08T02:55:43Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I mean, it’s hard to regret anything that has happened lately in Tunisia or Libya or Egypt . . . I have yet to see signs of democracy in Tunisia or Libya or Egypt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-russia-and-china-really-veto-the-resolution-on-syria/611803.md?page=3)