# Why did Sandy Berger steal those archive documents? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 21, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016 "2006-12-21T03:08:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/1 "2006-12-21T03:08:04Z")
[Why did he do it?](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061221/D8M4TNQ80.html) It doesn’t seem to make much sense on the face of it. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/2 "2006-12-21T11:11:30Z")
They showed the location of the WMDs? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/3 "2006-12-21T16:47:26Z")
He felt they would help his defense. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/4 "2006-12-21T17:24:28Z")
People get powerful to the point where they feel they’re above the rules. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/5 "2006-12-21T17:47:30Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] He felt they would help his defense. [/QUOTE] 1. In what way would they help his defense? 2. Why not just make photocopies if that were the case? 3. Why did he then destroy the copies he stole? He apparently was trying to destroy any and all copies of the documents. To me, that sounds like he thoughts the documents were going to harm him. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/6 "2006-12-22T01:11:02Z")
Wow, I hadn’t heard that. That is pretty strange. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/7 "2006-12-22T01:21:09Z")
How would they help his defense? I thought he was on trial for stealing the docs in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/8 "2006-12-22T01:28:38Z")
There was something incriminating to him and/or the Clintons. Since the documents were destroyed we’ll never know for sure what was in them. I can’t think of any other reason he’d do something so risky. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/9 "2006-12-22T04:21:47Z")
[QUOTE=friedo] How would they help his defense? I thought he was on trial for stealing the docs in the first place. [/QUOTE] He wasn’t on trial; he was appearing before the 9/11 Commission to give testimony about, and presumably defend, the Clinton Administration’s counterterrorism efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/10 "2006-12-22T04:45:25Z")
No originals were destroyed, only copies. Not a single bit of information was lost. Obviously, he wasn’t destroying evidence (despite the hopeful fantasies of the right). It looks like he panicked after he took some copies with him (why? Who knows? I don’t really care. It was basically harmless). Then, after he realized the nosy, busy body archive staff had been spying on him and ratted him out, he panicked and tried to get rid of them. I have no idea why he took them home, but there’s little likelihood it could have been for very insidious reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/11 "2006-12-22T04:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=Plan B] There was something incriminating to him and/or the Clintons. [/quote] Cite? All of the original documents still exist. Which one contains incrimnating evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/12 "2006-12-22T05:13:07Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No originals were destroyed, only copies. Not a single bit of information was lost. [/QUOTE] From [_The Washington Post_](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/20/AR2006122001968.html): > [@](#): > > The [National Archives] report states that in 2003, an official whose name was deleted informed the White House that the documents Berger reviewed during his first two visits — in May and June of that year — were so poorly organized and tracked that the archives “would never know what if any original documents were missing.” From the [_Los Angeles Times_](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-berger-documents,1,5811336.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines): > [@](#): > > Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., outgoing chairman of the House Government Reform Committee, said he’s not convinced that the Archives can account for all the documents taken by Berger. Davis said working papers of National Security Council staff members are not inventoried by the Archives. > > “There is absolutely no way to determine if Berger swiped any of these original documents. Consequently, there is no way to ever know if the 9/11 Commission received all required materials,” Davis said. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/13 "2006-12-22T05:24:07Z")
In addition, there were apparently handwritten notes on some of the copies, and those are lost. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/14 "2006-12-22T05:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] From [_The Washington Post_](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/20/AR2006122001968.html):From the [_Los Angeles Times_](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/wire/sns-ap-berger-documents,1,5811336.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines): [/QUOTE] His attorney says no originals were lost. There is no evidence that his attorney is lying. The insinuations of Tom Davis are not evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/15 "2006-12-22T05:28:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] In addition, there were apparently handwritten notes on some of the copies, and those are lost. [/QUOTE] Handwriiten by who? Berger himself? So what? ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/16 "2006-12-22T05:34:04Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] No originals were destroyed, only copies. Not a single bit of information was lost. Obviously, he wasn’t destroying evidence (despite the hopeful fantasies of the right). It looks like he panicked after he took some copies with him (why? Who knows? I don’t really care. It was basically harmless). Then, after he realized the nosy, busy body archive staff had been spying on him and ratted him out, he panicked and tried to get rid of them. I have no idea why he took them home, but there’s little likelihood it could have been for very insidious reasons. [/QUOTE] “Harmless”? “Nosy, busy body archive staff”? “Spying”? Is this a joke post? I don’t care about left or right, but I do deeply care about the intergity and sanctity of historical archives. If someone was screwing around with NA documents, I hope they throw the book at them. If you think the archives people are overreacting, do a web search and read a little about the selfish weasel who went around lifting priceless maps from research collections a few years ago. Once stuff like that is gone, it is usually gone forever. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/17 "2006-12-22T05:41:16Z")
Nothing was lost or destroyed. Nothing was tampered with. Nothing was compromised. Nobody saw any copies but Berger himself. The integrity of the archives is fine. There’s no reason to get worked up. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/18 "2006-12-22T06:00:06Z")
The only person who claims that “nothing was lost or destroyed” is Berger’s attorney, his paid advocate. No one else with the authority to know is making that generous claim. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/19 "2006-12-22T06:18:57Z")
[QUOTE=Walloon] The only person who claims that “nothing was lost or destroyed” is Berger’s attorney, his paid advocate. No one else with the authority to know is making that generous claim. [/QUOTE] No one is asserting anything to the contrary and Berger does not have the burden of proof. There is no good reason to believe anything was compromised. None of these documents were particularly sensitive anyway. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2006, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016/20 "2006-12-22T13:00:42Z")
From the [AP story link](http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061221/D8M4TNQ80.html) > [@](#): > > The notes said Berger had not been aware that Archives staff had been tracking the documents he was provided because of earlier suspicions from previous visits that he was removing materials. Also, the employees had made copies of some documents. So, Berger had been there before, and was believed to have been taking documents on those occasions. The time he got caught, the staff set him up by making copies of some documents. This implies pretty strongly that he _could have_ removed originals on previous trips. No one will ever know as the NA can’t possibly track all of their documents. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-sandy-berger-steal-those-archive-documents/385016.md?page=2)