# Why did scandal sink Hart but not Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 31, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464 "2015-08-31T02:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oedipus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Oedipus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oedipus)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/1 "2015-08-31T02:20:10Z")
I keep researching to find why Clinton was able to slip through scandals as (relatively) unharmed as he did. During his first campaign, he had to deal with the Jennifer Flowers story but still got elected to the White House. Obviously, later in the presidency he had to deal with Lewinsky but came out of it with higher approval numbers than Reagan ever had (though he had low “trustworthiness” numbers). I can’t quite come up with an answer - whether, according to all the beautiful poli sci economic models, Clinton would’ve won the election anyway and just had to not be a complete dolt to win (obviously helped by Perot), whether Clinton was the best smooth talker ever and ran a great campaign, etc. etc. I think the answer might lie in Gary Hart. How did he ruin his given Dem nod with the scandal? I mean, Clinton made it through just a few short years later. Why didn’t Hart? Does Clinton’s charisma really matter that much? What do you guys think? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/2 "2015-08-31T04:21:33Z")
It’s all about the nature of the coverup rather than the crime itself. Gary Hart denied all and even invited reporters to follow him. Whereupon he was busted red handed with another woman. So he got caught in a direct lie and even worse, got caught being a moron. Clinton handled it brilliantly by confessing to affairs in general, but none specifically. He’s never been linked definitively to any specific woman other than Monica Lewinsky. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/3 "2015-08-31T04:34:01Z")
Hart was running but Clinton was already in office.\* It’s no simple task to oust the POTUS.\*\* \*In his second term at that so it’s not like he could be elected again \*\* There’s an SNL skin in there somewhere for POTUS Be-Gone, or POTUS-Away… ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/4 "2015-08-31T05:06:08Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Hart was running but Clinton was already in office. The Gennifer Flowers episode broke in the media during the primaries. The Clintons made a 60 Minutes appearance that was widely credited with saving his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/5 "2015-08-31T05:09:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > He’s never been linked definitively to any specific woman other than Monica Lewinsky. Clinton admitted under oath to having one sexual encounter with Flowers in 1977. He acknowledged this testimony in his memoirs. > **[Gennifer Flowers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennifer_Flowers)** > > Gennifer Flowers (born January 24, 1950) is an American author, singer, model, actress, former State of Arkansas employee, and former TV journalist. In January 1998, President Bill Clinton testified under oath that he had a sexual encounter with Flowers. > Flowers has recounted being nicknamed "Buffles" by schoolmates. > During Bill Clinton's 1992 presidential election campaign, Flowers came forward to say that she had had a 12-year extramarital relationship with Clinton, and that he had assist... ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/6 "2015-08-31T06:22:25Z")
Clinton was smart enough to not have an affair during his campaign. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/7 "2015-08-31T07:00:18Z")
They kept him busy with 20 hours days during the campaign. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/8 "2015-08-31T07:07:57Z")
It may be relevant that Hart’s affair wasn’t for quickie sex. It involved frequent episodes in which he left home and spent entire weekends on a yacht, abandoning his wife while drinking with his millionaire friends and a dozen blondes in bikinis. That’s an obnoxious lifestyle which offends a lot of average people. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/9 "2015-08-31T16:01:27Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The Gennifer Flowers episode broke in the media during the primaries. The Clintons made a 60 Minutes appearance that was widely credited with saving his campaign. I think this is the real answer, specifically Hillary’s spirited defense of Bill. When the Hart scandal broke, Lee Hart looked exactly like a woman who had just found out about her husband’s cheating from giant newspaper headlines. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/10 "2015-08-31T16:09:14Z")
We did this discussion not too long ago. Don’t forget that, with Hart, there were pictures. Monkey Business anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/11 "2015-08-31T16:19:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > We did this discussion not too long ago. Don’t forget that, with Hart, there were pictures. Monkey Business anyone? If the whole thing had been an SNL skit, it would be forgotten as one that was stupidly over the top. I never have been able to parse Hart’s thinking on this. Did he really think no one in the campaign-coverage hordes was going to be able to track his rather obvious adventures? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/12 "2015-08-31T17:23:50Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I never have been able to parse Hart’s thinking on this. Did he really think no one in the campaign-coverage hordes was going to be able to track his rather obvious adventures? I think Hart just got to caught up in the JFK comparisons and believed reporters would look the other way. He ignored the fact that political journalism had changed since the sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/13 "2015-08-31T18:00:28Z")
As well as many of the reasons given above Clinton was also one of the greatest politicians of the 20th century. These greats are not subject to quite the same rules as lesser politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/14 "2015-08-31T18:08:29Z")
I would put it slightly differently: the great politicians are able to re-cast the rules in their favour. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/15 "2015-08-31T18:31:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I would put it slightly differently: the great politicians are able to re-cast the rules in their favour. Yes. That’s perhaps a better way of putting it. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/16 "2015-08-31T20:35:22Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > As well as many of the reasons given above Clinton was also one of the greatest politicians of the 20th century. These greats are not subject to quite the same rules as lesser politicians. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I would put it slightly differently: the great politicians are able to re-cast the rules in their favour. I disagree. It wasn’t that Clinton wasn’t subject to the same rules or recast the rules. What happened was he saw that Hart got in trouble for having an ongoing affair while he was running for President. So Clinton made sure he ended all his affairs before he started his campaign. An interesting what-if would be what might have happened if Hart hadn’t run for President. Clinton wouldn’t have had his example to learn from and he might have tried to carry on with his affairs. And he almost certainly would have been caught and it would have been his campaign that was killed. Would Bush have been elected to a second term? Would Jerry Brown or Paul Tsongas or Mario Cuomo have been elected instead? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/17 "2015-08-31T20:59:50Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think Hart just got to caught up in the JFK comparisons and believed reporters would look the other way. He ignored the fact that political journalism had changed since the sixties. I think that there was another change between when Hart committed his affair and when Clinton ran for President, too. At the time that Hart ran, if a politician had admitted to using marijuana, he’d have been too taboo for popular support (does anybody recall Douglas Ginsburg, the Reagan Supreme Court nominee in 1987 who had to remove his name from consideration because he admitted to using marijuana?). By the time that Clinton ran, he was able to admit that he “tried” marijuana (but didn’t inhale!). We are now at a point where Obama can freely admit to earlier drug use, and it’s generally a non-issue. So, too, perhaps with marital infidelity. In the mid-1980’s, there was still a popular illusion that politicians were supposed to be honest and faithful, and any deviation from that was a scandal that could sink a presidential run. By the early 1990’s, society may have become jaded enough that a presidential candidate who had been previously unfaithful no longer shocked the conscience. I’m not saying that this the only change. I agree with others upthread that note that Hart was literally caught on camera with a mistress in his lap, whereas Clinton was able to water down the allegation with vague rhetoric instead of documentable proof. Hart’s affair was ongoing; Clinton’s was (apparently) in the past. Hart’s wife didn’t run to his defense; Hillary Clinton did so. But it’s also possible that Hart (and all of the Kennedy gossip, and the rumors of GHW Bush’s dalliance with a secretary, and maybe even the mess with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill) softened this country’s morality just enough that being a philanderer was titillating, but no longer a deal breaker. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/18 "2015-08-31T21:19:28Z")
Obligatory Bloom County strip. [http://www.thecomicstrips.com/properties/bloom/art\_images/cg50243f033c457.jpg](http://www.thecomicstrips.com/properties/bloom/art_images/cg50243f033c457.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/19 "2015-08-31T22:34:24Z")
It’s not the crime, it’s the coverup. John Edwards showed that affairs can still destroy you. He lied, impugned his accusers, actually said the baby was a staffer’s… It was just too much. Clinton’s approach, admitting wrongdoing while refusing to confirm specific allegations, was a good one. Plus, he was ultra talented as a politician as others have mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464/20 "2015-09-01T01:21:33Z")
One forgotten aspect of the whole “affair of the Hart” matter is that the press wasn’t following _him_, they were following _her._ Because of a phone call, supposedly from a roommate. Following the whole scandal, Ms. Rice got a modeling contract with “No Excuses” jeans. This same company went on to give Paula Jones $25,000. (I was not aware of this little fact until just now.) The man Ms. Rice ultimately married was Jack Hughes whom, I believe, served in the Reagan or Bush one administration is some kind of diplomatic capacity, although I’m not able to cite that right now. (I will keep looking.) As I often say, sometimes where there’s smoke, there’s a smoke machine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-scandal-sink-hart-but-not-clinton/729464.md?page=2)