Why did “Soccer” not catch on in the U.S./Canada

Quibble: the Atlanta Silverbacks aren’t an MLS team. They play in the A-league, which is the highest minor league in the American soccer structure, a notch below MLS.

As a soccer and MLS fan (QUAKES RULE!!!), let me throw out some more points:

First, IMHO the thread should be titled “Why **hasn’t[/] soccer caught on yet in the US/Canada”. Just because it hasn’t yet doesn’t mean it never will.

Second, we’re not really talking about promoting a sport; we’re talking about promoting a league, or association, or organization, that represents the highest levels of domestic competition. And throughout American soccer history, there haven’t been too many of those: The NASL and its forebearers, the ASL and USSL, and now MLS. In the various lacunae during those leagues’s absences, soccer morphed more towards a European model, with individual clubs formed around ethnic communities carrying the torch for the sport. Fine and dandy, but if the standardbearer for your sport is the Fall River Rovers, and the players are semipros who need a second job during the season, it’s painfully obvious that the money needed to sustain the sport just wasn’t there.

Third, generally speaking, the history of American soccer has been one of vast lurches forward, followed by miserable stumbles. And those stumbles have been in the boardroom, not on the field; they include NASL’s disastrous overexpansion strategy in the late 70s and the wars between the first ASL, some of its more powerful clubs, and the USFA (now US Soccer, the domestic governing body), in the late 20’s. It’s almost as if the sport here was cursed by incompetent management.

So what happens now? I maintain that Major League Soccer is a viable candidate for finally breaking through that wall of seeming indifference. Attendance hovers around 14-15K per game, and it is definitely having a solid impact on the Men’s National team; which is more than half MLS players. However, the league was forced to fold two of its teams this last offseason; the single-entity structure meant that every team suffers equally in the losses. And despite their being ten teams, there are only three owners–Philip Anschutz, Lamar Hunt, and Bob Kraft–so the fate of the league rests on those three men. They’re not idiots, but if they decide to pull the plug, game over, man.

And why aren’t Americans interested in the game? Besides the historical reasons, I just don’t think we’re that sophisticated when it comes to appreciating the sport. There’s a beauty in watching a team string eight, nine, ten passes together, or a perfect move by a striker that embarrasses a defender, or a graceful, arching free kick that soars over players until it sinks low enough to strike a player’s head, when it will bounce with a rangy unpredictability. Sure, we’ll sometimes give it a chance–the 1994 World Cup set many attendance records–but we haven’t had a defining personality or moment that will cause sports fans around the country to take notice. Yet.
Check out http://www.sover.net/~spectrum/overview.html for more on American soccer.

Airblair, I had no idea that you posted here. See you on Bigsoccer!

I wrote a long response to this thread that didn’t go through, adn I was too lazy to type it up again.

I just assumed everyone on the board was intelligent enough to know when an opinion was given.

Marc

Speak for yourself. Sophisticated American sports fans - and there are a lot of us, trust me - already love baseball. In baseball getting hit in the head with the ball is an accident, rather than an accepted strategy.:stuck_out_tongue:

But in boxing, getting hit in the head is part of the game. It’s irrelevant that Americans are sophisiticated sports fans–my point is that we’re unsophisticated soccer fans, and . . . and . . .

. . . anyone else get the feeling that I’m trying to explain to someone why their joke doesn’t make sense? GAAHH. I’m so ashamed of myself.

Lawmill, you have sussed me out. PM me on Bigsoccer when their database is working again, you are obviously a man (or woman) with impeccable taste in time-wasting message boards!:cool:

sorry about the hijack but,

How popular was soccer in South America before Pele was around?

I’m just wondering if having an elite American soccer player would change the way Americans think about men’s soccer.

There were about 205 000 people at the 1950 World Cup final in Brazil; several years before Pele became famous. I think South American football popularity goes back to the start of the 20th century.

Not that I know much about soccer, but I’m just wondering :
Which countries were in the same group that the USA? Which of them were eliminated for the US to be qualified for the World Cup?

Don’t ask me, I’m American.

Any really good US player is going to go and play in Europe.

yu mean any good US player is 12years old
:slight_smile:

I assume you’re talking about World Cup qualification from the CONCACAF region, which is North and Central America as well as the Caribbean.

The final segment of this qualification is the “Hex”, when the six teams who have survived previous qualifying rounds play against one another over several months in a round robin format, home and away. 3 points for a win, 1 for a tie. The three teams with the most points go to the Far East.

Costa Rica, Mexico, and USA qualified. Honduras, Trinidad & Tobago, and Jamaica did not. Decent teams like Guatemala, El Salvador, and Canada did not make it to the final round.

http://www.concacaf.com/competitions/stats.page?url=%2Fscripts%2Frunisa.dll%3Fs7%3Agp%3A%3A48302%2B%2FGL%2FCompet-redesign%2B1034%2B2002%2BE&season=2002&code=1034 lays all of this out.

This is debateable. The money and fame are in Europe, but many relatively excellent Americans, like Landon Donovan, Clint Mathis, and Eddie Pope have chosen to play in the United States instead of riding the bench at a club or starting for a low-profile team in Europe.

Let’s address some of the assertions regarding the question in the OP and see if the assertions can be squared with the facts.

  1. Soccer isn’t popular here because it makes for poor television promotion (hard to have commercials, hard to watch, etc.)

This, of course, carries with it the assumption that baseball, American football, and basketball (hockey doesn’t count, it’s still so second class that it only airs on ESPN and fails to get equal play with the NBA) are popular because of their promotion through television. While it is true that their current popularity has resulted in large part from success on television, all three sports were popular to a large degree well before television managed to promote them successfully. American football has been the number one fall sport for over 60 years, either through the college game or the professional game. Baseball has had our collective summer attention since before radio broadcasts began on a large scale, let alone television. And I can recall watching Lakers games on TV and collecting lots of trading cards and the like in the 60’s, long before the NBA was a marketing bonanza on TV. Soccer’s lack of presence on TV is reflective of its lack of popularity, not the other way around.

  1. Soccer doesn’t do well here because of low scoring (or, stated otherwise, because it is “boring”).

This is, of course, nonsense. It presupposes a fundamental difference between Americans and everyone non-American. The corallary for this assertion is that non-Americans like “boring” things. It also assumes that soccer is boring, often without managing a very convincing argument of supporting evidence besides the low scores.

Americans usually find soccer “boring” at first go for the same reason many non-Americans find our form of football “boring” at first go, or baseball, for that matter: lack of familiarity with the game. Sure, there isn’t a lot of scoring, but that hardly makes a game boring by itself. Anyone who has watched one of these wonderful hockey thrillers where the game goes three or four overtimes for a 1-0 or 2-1 win will cheerfully admit that the game was anything but boring. But one has to know what to find exciting when scoring isn’t happening to find the game fun to watch. Would a person untutored in the sport of baseball find a well-turned double-play exciting? (One is perhaps reminded of the old joke about the wife who, arriving at a game late with her husband, and finding out that the score is 0-0 with both pitchers throwing no-hitters in the sixth inning, remarks on how she was right and they hadn’t missed anything…) How about all the inherent drama in a dropped pass on a post route? A fan of the game finds it exciting; a non-fan just thinks they screwed up again and looks for the channel changer.

The other reason Americans find soccer “boring” is because they are rarely emotionally invested in what they are watching. I agonize every year over the Cubs. I just was crushed when the Leafs lost in OT Tuesday night. The Packers have been my team since the Bart Starr years, when, as a kid, their banner was posted on my wall, I drank out of their glasses, and I wore their jersey while watching on black and white television. All while living in Southern California. In short, I am a FAN. Now, admit it. How many true soccer FANS are there here? How many Americans cheered to the rafters when Real Madrid won the Champions Cup two weeks ago? Who in this country dies when Inter Milan fails to take the scudetto, or when United lose to Arsenal? If you don’t think it is possible to get excited about soccer, just watch a soccer mom at tournament time when her kid’s team in in the middle of a nil-nil game with time running out. Of course, from personal experience, I can suggest you don’t watch her while wearing a black shirt and carrying a whistle with two little colored cards in your breast pocket, cause make the wrong call and she’ll eat ya for lunch…

The ultimate proof that a sport doesn’t have to have a lot of scoring to create a lot of excitement is NASCAR. Cars turning left over and over. Think about it…

  1. Soccer will become big when the kids playing it grow up.

Sorry, but this is not turning out to be the case. Soccer has been a wildly popular kid sport for well over a decade now. AYSO and USYSA were registering record numbers of kids at the beginning of the last decade, many of whom already have made it to the stage of being young consumers, in that VERY important early adult bracket that so many television advertisers love to market to. And they aren’t much more interested in soccer as adults than their non-soccer playing friends.

The reason for this seems to go back to some of the main difficulties with soccer here; mostly that it doesn’t create fans out of participants/watchers in the US. All those kids playing aren’t any more interested in MLS or in world class soccer players and teams than their parents were. Talk to them about the World Cup, and they shrug their shoulders and want to know if the Sox took two from the Yanks.

This shouldn’t surprise anyone. Bowling has the same difficulty, only it fails to convert either kids OR adults into fans.

Why, then, is soccer not popular here? The reasons are two:

A) Americans had a popular pasttime already when soccer’s popularity was exploding elsewhere (namely, baseball).

B) Soccer lost to the “Rugby” philosophy, which took over American college football.

Soccer’s world-wide popularity came about mostly through the spread of the game by English mercantile and manufacturing establishments overseas during the very late 1800’s and early 1900’s. England had a large mercantile presence in several European countries, namely Italy, Spain and Portugal (surprise, surprise that these three are among the five or six best countries consistently in Europe). It also had a lot of business in Argentina and Brazil (hmmm, do we see a trend here), not to mention Uruguay (winners of two World Cups themselves). And, of course, it had lots of connections in various parts of Africa. At the time of the spread in popularity, these countries didn’t have their own “national” sports. The working class in these countries readily adopted the sport, largely because of its simplicity and lack of expensive necessary equipment.

America, of course, didn’t have a large English mercantile establishment here in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s. Further, America had baseball, which experienced its own growth over virtually the same years as the growth of soccer in England and, later, the “world.” By 1901, we had two major leagues and several minor leagues of baseball. Baseball ate up our desire for a past time. Similar results occurred in Canada (hockey, Canadian football, and (gulp) curling), Venezuela, Dominican Republic, Cuba, etc. where baseball is king, Australasia (Aussie rules football, among other things), the Indian subcontinent (which adopted cricket from the English upper class that ruled it, but not soccer from the English middle and lower class that avoided the area when possible).

And still, soccer might have caught on here, if it wasn’t for the fact that the American colleges opted to go much the same route as “Oxbridge,” adopting the more physical version of football pioneered at Rugby School in England. Soccer was widely played in the US in the late 1800’s, and even as late as the 1930’s it was popular and we were relatively good at it (we were semifinalists at the first World Cup in 1930). But the Ivy League and, following their footsteps, the other well-known colleges chose to promote the version of the game where you could grab an opposing player and force them to give up the ball. By the time of WWII, American football was immensly popular in its collegiate form, so much so that it ended up being used as a tourism draw (bowl games). The fan base had built up through a generation of indoctrination at the “local” level.

Thus, we already had one national sport occupying our time during spring and summer, and we chose a different version of football to occupy our fall, mostly because we preferred to imitate the “highbrow” English colleges rather than the “lowbrow” working class. By the time the World Cup had helped establish the tremendous popularity of soccer in Europe and Latin America, we had no need of it in America.

There is one other factor that, in my humble opinion, plays into the lack of soccer as a national sport here: climate. In most of the parts of Europe where soccer became immensly popular, the winter climate allows the game to be played all winter long. In most of the highly populated areas of America (early 1900 demographics), winter prevents the playing of soccer because of cold and snow, and summer makes playing the sport difficult because of heat and humidity (which is why baseball is such a lazy sport most of the time). Now, of course, as soccer in such places as Russia and Nigeria shows, you can overcome these problems, but usually only because you have nothing else to fill the gap.

Anyone who wants some references can either dig out one of my many past posts on the subject, or can ask me, and I’ll supply some, in what little spare time I have as I go into practical catatonic stupor resulting from staying up to watch games the next month at 2:30 am, 5:30 am and 7:30 am.

Doug (who remembers with pride where he was July 4, 1994)

Soccer is not popular because;

  1. It is seen as primarily a child’s and womans sport in the US. When kids get older they want to be in “men sports”

  2. Americans prefer to watch individualistic games. Soccer is too much a collectivist endeavor. Baseball is definately a very individualistic game and football is in many respects also. Basketball and hockey tend to be more team oriented (unless your Shaq or something) and is probably why they are a distant 3rd and 4th in popularity. Americans like to see individual people succeed and be hero’s (Babe Ruth, Joe Montana, etc.)

  3. I suppose this relates to the first reason, but football players in high school get all the chicks. Soccer does not get the ladies hot.

  4. Lastly, and I think very importantly, people want to watch only very talented people play on the national level. Our soccer talent pool is pretty shallow as most of our really good athletes get inot othr more lucrative sports.

Also, I think it depends where in the US you are a little. In the Northeast
I think soccer is slightly more popular.

Football (soccer) players can be incredibly talented individuals. Witness Romania in the 1990s without Hagi, or maybe Senegal without Diouf, or an older England without Gascoigned. Soccer may be a more team-oriented game, but there’s still individual heros aplenty.

PS DSYoungEsq – a magnificent post.

I’m not a soccer fan, never have been, and never will be. (So, if you ARE a soccer lover, and don’t like what I’m about to say, at least I’ve acknowledged my prejudices up front.)

Soccer is a silly game. Don’t take that the wrong way- ALL games are silly, when you get right down to it. That’s part of their charm. Athletes in ALL sports are entertainers, nothing more. If you find it fun to watch them do their thing, whatever it happens to be, that’s fine by me. But can we all acknowledge that NO sport is really important, in the grand scheme of things? Nolan Ryan didn’t cure cancer, and neither did Pele. Joe Montana didn’t bring peace to the Middle East, and neither did Giorgio Chinaglia. Michael Jordan didn’t end starvation in Africa, and neither did Franz Beckenbauer.

Sorry to belabor the point, but sports just aren’t that important. If we watch them, we should do so solely for our own amusement. Whether your favorite spectator sport is soccer, hockey, horse racing or anything else, your favorite sport is nothing more than an enjoyable waste of time.

Now, like most Americans, I’d be perfectly happy to tell Europeans and South Americans, “You guys enjoy your favorite silly games, and we’ll enjoy ours.” Like most Americans, I don’t want to insult or ridicule soccer, I want to IGNORE it, as I always have. The problem is, soccer fanatics (especially the Europeans and Europhiles) are never content to leave it at that.

The idiots who’ve tried to market soccer in America have never tried to sell it as a fun game, or as family entertainment. If they had, they might have had some success. Rather, their approach has always been to SCOLD Americans, to NAG us! They invariably try to tell us that soccer is “the WORLD’s game,” as if that’s supposed to impress us, as if we Americans have some kind of moral obligation to embrace the game just because Europeans do. They act as if soccer is more than a silly game. They act as if it’s an art form, one that all sophisticates appreciate. Their attitude suggests that only an uncouth yahoo could fail to love it.

Well, news flash for marketers: nobody is going to be nagged into liking a game. Nobody is going to be shamed into watching a sport. And nobody in America CARES that every other country seems to love soccer. If you want Americans to watch soccer, try to convince them it will be fun. But…

  1. Don’t ever try to sell soccer as more than entertainment., and…

  2. If your efforts to win Americans over fail, don’t take that as a personal affront.

  3. We Yanks don’t care whether Europe ever embraces baseball or American football- why should you care whether we like soccer?

One possible contributor that hasn’t been mentioned yet: statistics. For some reason - this could be another GD altogether - Americans are obsessed with sports statistics. They become an integral part of our love affair with our sports. Think about baseball: how often do you hear a conversation about the sport without one or more participants bandying about an array of numbers that would confuse a nonfan to no end?

Does Mattingly belong in the Hall of Fame? He’s got nine Gold Gloves, and he hit .300 for his career, but his home run totals are a little low… Who’s the better pitcher, Greg Maddux or Randy Johnson? Maddux has almost 300 career wins, and an ERA under 3.00, but Johnson strikes out 300 every year. Rickey Henderson has stolen more bases than anyone alive; will anyone ever approach that? Will anyone ever hit .400 for a complete season again?

You see my point. The same is largely true of football, and baseball and football are the two most popular American spectator sports. Next up? Probably basketball, which has fewer statistics than, say, baseball. Then hockey, which has relatively few.

Soccer. Very, very few statistics.

Just a thought.

  • FCF

Phht. Stats are big in football (soccer) too. Just take a look at http://www.soccer-stats.com or http://www.opta.co.uk/

And one might point out that MLS has gone to great lengths to create all sorts of categories of “achievement” to keep track of in soccer so that stat nuts can get their fix. When I was working for the California Jaguars, as announcer we ended up having to keep track of all sorts of silly things that soccer people normally ignore, so that the “A-league” could trumpet them on the website.

The statement that soccer isn’t individualistic enough can be dealt with quite easily. First of all, basketball is no more individualistic than soccer and it does quite well. The collective efforts of individuals leads to scoring chances, for which the individuals who score claim credit. Further, the question of why the sport isn’t popular now is simply the fact that it didn’t become popular back then.

I do agree that soccer marketing in this country generally stinks. The effort needs to be on creating a sense of entertainment by outstanding individuals. But rarely do we get that from MLS.

Finally, the fact that soccer isn’t seen as a game for “men” is simply a restatement of the situation. Athletes turn to American football as they grow up precisely because the sport isn’t popular. It isn’t that the sport isn’t popular because it isn’t popular, if you can follow that silly clause. :slight_smile: