# Why did the buffalo just not go away? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 23, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415 "2010-03-23T00:46:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Stowed\_Bob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stowed_bob/32/3312_2.png) [@Stowed\_Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stowed_Bob)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/61 "2010-03-24T00:07:14Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > This has recently been disputed. From wikipedia: He’s right in that the venom isn’t like a poisonous snake. From the sound of it, the venom works in conjunction with the bacteria. The venom doesn’t kill, the bacteria does, but the venom’s short-term damage paves the way for the bacteria to take hold and thrive. ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/62 "2010-03-24T01:09:10Z")
> [@Stowed\_Bob](#): > > He’s right in that the venom isn’t like a poisonous snake. From the sound of it, the venom works in conjunction with the bacteria. The venom doesn’t kill, the bacteria does, but the venom’s short-term damage paves the way for the bacteria to take hold and thrive. Based on the paper [_A central role for venom in predation by Varanus komodoensis (Komodo Dragon) and the extinct giant Varanus (Megalania) priscus"_](http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2009/05/15/0810883106.abstract), that’s not the sound of it at all: > [@](#): > > We conclude that there is no compelling evidence for the hypothesized role of pathogenic bacteria in the predatory ecology of _V. komodoensis_. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/63 "2010-03-24T01:31:57Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > That link launched some malware ‘my computer scan’ thing. Huh…it didn’t for my home computer or secure government computer. It’s LiveScience, whatever that is. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2010, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/64 "2010-03-24T08:39:43Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Huh…it didn’t for my home computer or secure government computer. It’s LiveScience, whatever that is. I just tried it again and the page briefly loaded, then was overlaid with a big advert purporting to be for IE8, but the ‘download now’ button was going to a url at [jdoquocy.com](http://jdoquocy.com). They’ve got an assortment of differently-supplied ads on that page - I expect one of them is a bit less than squeaky clean. ---
**Author:** ![misterW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@misterW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/misterW)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/65 "2010-03-25T04:18:05Z")
> [@Darwins\_Finch](#): > > Nice idea, except for the fact that group selection isn’t an evolutionary mechanism, and hasn’t been considered as such for quite some time… > > Doesn’t work that way either, since genes don’t have survival strategies. Some selection occurs at the level of “gene”, but a good deal more occurs at the level of “individual”. What are some examples of individual level selection that could not be considered gene level selection? ---
**Author:** ![Darwins\_Finch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darwins_finch/32/20304_2.png) [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/66 "2010-03-25T04:28:22Z")
> [@misterW](#): > > What are some examples of individual level selection that could not be considered gene level selection? This is a pretty substantial aside, but the short answer would be “pretty much all of them”. Dawkin’s “selfish gene” was an attempt to explain altruistic behavior (Dawkins is an ethologist by training; his treatment of genes is often as theoretical constructs rather than the structures they actually are), for which they might work as a theoretical model. But the reality is that individuals live or die or mate as whole; individual genes are not / cannot be selected for/against, except in limited circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/67 "2010-03-25T18:05:12Z")
Interesting thread. Iwonder how many generations of animals it takes, for a species to develop a fear of Man? Supposedly, the animals on the Galapagos Islands are indifferent, or even friendly to humans-how many bad experiences before they learn to avoid us? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415/68 "2010-03-25T18:28:42Z")
A species of lizard whose bite is only venomous enough to give you a nasty case if diarrhea is the commode dragon. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-buffalo-just-not-go-away/533415.md?page=3)