# Why did the Chinese cut down all the trees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2005, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166 "2005-09-18T00:43:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/21 "2005-09-18T23:12:40Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Bolding mine. > > :dubious: > > China is not unbridledly capitalistic today, and certainly never has been since the cultural revolution. Capitalism has called environmental damage (so far, every known form of economy has), but I’m pretty sure China’s Communism did more. china’s unbridled capitalism has had a dramatic impact in a negative way on china’s environment. the communists did it no favor either. you should check out the economy today to see what % is state versus private sector. huge sections of the china economy are indeed unbridled capitalism. you might start with the automotive sector, which has more makers and models than the US ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/22 "2005-09-18T23:36:27Z")
> [@Peanuthead](#): > > Just out of curiosity, what kind of trees grow there? Hard wood? Soft wood? Any species the same as North America? Any species peculiar to China? The forests I am familiar with in China are primarily what is called mixed tropical hardwoods, and are found in the southern part. Wood availability in China is poor from a pulp and paper making perspective, although if you were a cabintmaker or something there would probably be ample supplies. I’ve heard a saying these days in the industry that goes, “The hardwood is in Brazil, the softwood is in Russia, and the customers are in China”. A ton of wood pulp from Brazil can be put on the dock in Shanghai for less than the cost of native fiber, simply because of the price of wood. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/23 "2005-09-19T01:03:41Z")
China Guy, just whatbgreat tree stocks were left for what you describe as China’s current “unbridled capitalism” to take? As near as I can tell, the forests were virtually gone decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/24 "2005-09-19T13:05:57Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > In Vancouver recently, I was told that property owners of Chinese origin do not like trees for some reason and often cut them down. Vancouverites are proud of their trees, but some are resentful about all the real estate money that’s come in from Hong Kong, so maybe this just Canada Not-Nice at work. My wife is Chinese and we are going to be planting more trees in our yard. Trees are good fung-shui and channel energy into the home if properly placed. I think that maybe the previous Vancouverite owners had planted their trees in such a way as to throw off the balance of chi in their homes or disrupt the flow of energy to the house, which the new Chinese owners were trying to correct. They new owners may cut down the old trees only to replant different trees in different locations in the yard. The real estate agent may have heard them discussing removing the old trees while buying the house, but not been aware of their plans for future landscaping. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/25 "2005-09-19T13:24:57Z")
Perhaps China is analogous to the Mediterranean region, in that both areas have been continuously occupied _for so long_ by major, high-tech-for-their-time civilizations – think Roman Empire, etc. for the Mediterranean – that they both were largely deforested over a thousand years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/26 "2005-09-19T16:45:30Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > China is not unbridledly capitalistic today, and certainly never has been since the cultural revolution. Capitalism has called environmental damage (so far, every known form of economy has), but I’m pretty sure China’s Communism did more. Um, yes they are unbridledly capitalistic. I know several people who have made business trips to China in recent years. They all say that China is Communist in name only. ---
**Author:** ![Muad\_Dib](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2005, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/27 "2005-09-22T22:12:48Z")
Well, I asked Zack if he had figured out the Chinese deforestation problem, he told me that reason is that they are all stupid heads. However, since he was crawling on the ground with a large quilt covering him trying to sneak up on his cat Jesse, I don’t think that he was paying close attention to the question at the time. Later that day, when he was in a calmer state, I again brought up the subject. This time he told me that the Chinese cut down all of the trees because they were all very old and would have covered everyone in leaves. I must say that I am rather proud of him for figuring this out on his own, especially when I could not. ---
**Author:** ![stochastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@stochastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stochastic)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/28 "2005-09-23T05:09:56Z")
I worked with a Chinese research scientist in Seattle a few years ago. I recall her going on and on about the plethora of trees in the PacNorWest, compared to her native China. She mentioned that around her hometown (I don’t recall where), the deforestation was so great that erosion and landslides were a big problem during rainy times and dust storms were bad when it was dry. She said the trees were cut down for firewood due to inadequate supplies of other fuels for heating and cooking, and she specifically blamed the Chinese government for the problem (and she was glad to be in the US, where she could voice such criticism). I’ve thought about this story much since then and I’ve been curious about how much it applied to all of China. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/29 "2005-09-23T14:34:51Z")
This also might be a “Panda meme” that Zack picked up. In a lot of basic and informative Kidblurbs and bytes about Panda Bears there is often reference to diminishing Panda habitat due to deforestation. Maybe he was worried about the Pandas? Sometimes kids take things very literally. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/30 "2005-09-23T17:56:32Z")
I went to China for a couple of weeks in 2001. “Unbridled capitalism” is exactly the term I would use, there have been many recent dismantlings of state controlled commerce and industry that unleashed the flood gates of a relatively unrestrained free market. Private ownership of land and homes, small businesses, stock investment, worker pay, benefits, retirement plans, everything you would expect. They honestly made the United States seem economically socialist in comparison. One woman I talked with for a while said the the young are diving in headlong and going nuts with capitalism, picture an entire country of FBLA clubs hopped up on Red Bull and you’ll get the idea of the frenzy under way there. She said, however, that there is a significant older population that still longs for and prefers the old way “Back in my day, we had state-managed economy and collectives, and we were better for it. Kids today…” As for trees, it depends heaviliy upon the region. I did notice several times that there was a general ethic and opinion that the Cultural Revolution was a dreadful experiment-gone-wrong and to be seen as a lesson for the future. I noticed several large-scale reforestation and beatification going on. Much is China is stripped bare by unrestrained overfarming and industry, however, so they do ahve a long way to recover. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/31 "2005-09-23T18:03:37Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > Bolding mine. > China is not unbridledly capitalistic today, and certainly never has been since the cultural revolution. Capitalism has called environmental damage (so far, every known form of economy has), but I’m pretty sure China’s Communism did more. It would be more accurate to characterize what is now taking place in China as “crony ‘capitalism’” (i.e. old socialist enterprises are given out on the basis of political favoritism). The result is considerably worse for the environment than traditional capitalism – the political insecurity of property rights creates an incentive to extract as much profit as possible right now without a thought for the long-term value of the land. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/32 "2005-09-23T18:55:06Z")
Ahh! The Tragedy of the “Commons” Political Science 101 ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2005, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166/33 "2005-09-23T19:13:17Z")
[More than you will ever want to know about deforestation in China.](http://www.library.utoronto.ca/pcs/state/chinaeco/forest.htm) Note that the section covering the Great Leap Foward indicates that during that period, some provinces list between 1/10 to 1/3 of their tree cover, and that trend has continued thorugh the 1980s. So much for the “wisdom” of the Chinese. That was REALLY stupid of them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-chinese-cut-down-all-the-trees/322166.md?page=1)