# Why did the computer mouse catch on? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 26, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764 "2007-11-26T03:38:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/1 "2007-11-26T03:38:24Z")
How did the mouse catch on? It was developed _de novo_ and doesn’t look like anything to someone who hasn’t seen one before. The existing technology for moving like that was the joystick (as in planes) and the ‘obvious’ technology might have been the light pen (which existed long before the mouse). The track ball also seems more obvious than the mouse. Never mind that the mouse has advantages over all of these, or that all of these (replace ‘light pen’ with ‘touch pad’ and add the trackpoint (as on Thinkpad laptops)) still exist today. This is about the history. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/2 "2007-11-26T03:42:26Z")
I don’t understand the question. Aren’t the advantages the mouse has over other cursor-moving technologies the _reason_ it took off and became popular in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/3 "2007-11-26T04:01:33Z")
The mouse caught on because Apple decided to use it as the pointing device for the Mac. Thus, anyone who bought a Mac got a mouse as the default. When Windows came along, the mouse had been firmly established. I’m betting one reason why Apple chose the mouse was that it was cheaper than other pointing devices at the time. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/4 "2007-11-26T05:14:42Z")
I’m guessing simpler (cheaper) technology vs. usability over any of the other input technologies. FWIW, I use a Wacom stylus for 95% of my navigation and manipulation. I mostly only use the mouse for its scroll ball, or when I need steady precision. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/5 "2007-11-26T05:24:47Z")
Look up “Douglas Engelbart” ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/6 "2007-11-26T05:32:05Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] The mouse caught on because Apple decided to use it as the pointing device for the Mac. Thus, anyone who bought a Mac got a mouse as the default. When Windows came along, the mouse had been firmly established. I’m betting one reason why Apple chose the mouse was that it was cheaper than other pointing devices at the time. [/QUOTE] You’re giving Apple a bit too much credit. As beowulff hinted at, the computer mouse was invented by a guy named Douglas Engelbart in the late 60’s. The design was refined at Xerox PARC, and was one of many innovations that Apple “borrowed” when they put the Mac together. The research done at Xerox PARC deserves most of the credit for the invention of the modern graphical user interface. The Xerox Alto had a mouse in the mid 70’s. PARC improved a bit on Engelbart’s design (Engelbart had two wheels, PARC moved the two wheels inside the mouse and added the ball), and PARC’s design basically dominated mice until the optical mouse took over. The Alto was never released as a commercial product, and when Xerox did release a commercial product, it looked a lot more like an IBM PC (it had no mouse and no GUI). Eventually, they did release the Xerox 8010, which was the first commercial computer to have a GUI, folders, icons, etc. ---
**Author:** ![tonedef](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@tonedef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonedef)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/7 "2007-11-26T06:01:06Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] The mouse caught on because Apple decided to use it as the pointing device for the Mac. Thus, anyone who bought a Mac got a mouse as the default. When Windows came along, the mouse had been firmly established. I’m betting one reason why Apple chose the mouse was that it was cheaper than other pointing devices at the time. [/QUOTE] So what would of happened if apple had patienteed it so microsoft couldn’t use it? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/8 "2007-11-26T06:13:10Z")
Douglas Engelbart patented the mouse. How could Apple patent something that Douglas already had a patent for? ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/9 "2007-11-26T06:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=tonedef] So what would of happened if apple had patienteed it so microsoft couldn’t use it? [/QUOTE] Prior art. Apple couldn’t have patented something they did not invent. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/10 "2007-11-26T06:20:36Z")
[QUOTE=engineer\_comp\_geek] You’re giving Apple a bit too much credit. [/QUOTE] Very true. I recall using a mouse with a BBC B in about 1987, and I don’t think I’d ever _seen_ a Mac then. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/11 "2007-11-26T06:42:19Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Very true. I recall using a mouse with a BBC B in about 1987, and I don’t think I’d ever _seen_ a Mac then. [/QUOTE] The original Mac was released in 1984 (q.v. the famous Super Bowl commercial) so this doesn’t really help your case. > [@Q.E.D.](#): > > I don’t understand the question. Aren’t the advantages the mouse has over other cursor-moving technologies the reason it took off and became popular in the first place? Nobody can understand those benefits if they are already locked-in to a different technology. (People don’t understand things that would hinder their ability to make money. A prime example is Symbolics failing to grasp the power of commodity hardware.) Further, the benefits of one technology over another can be negated by the cost of switching. (This appears to be true in the case of Dvorak versus QWERTY.) Finally, investing in a new technology is difficult to justify to investors (or even the other founders of the startup) if there are well-established alternatives. (Joysticks and light pens, for example.) What I’m asking is “How did the mouse overcome those barriers at both Xerox and Apple and then commence to take over the world?”. > [@jovan](#): > > Prior art. Apple couldn’t have patented something they did not invent. Two things: Prior art doesn’t prevent you from getting a patent, but it might prevent you from using it as a club in court. In addition, it’s possible to patent an incremental improvement and use that patent to club someone to death in court. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/12 "2007-11-26T06:49:13Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] The original Mac was released in 1984 [/quote] Yes, I know that, but my point was that it was only one of various computers which used, or could use, a mouse. A rather more varied market than **RealityChuck** ’s overly-simplified explanation. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/13 "2007-11-26T07:00:14Z")
[QUOTE=engineer\_comp\_geek] You’re giving Apple a bit too much credit. As beowulff hinted at, the computer mouse was invented by a guy named Douglas Engelbart in the late 60’s. The design was refined at Xerox PARC, and was one of many innovations that Apple “borrowed” when they put the Mac together. The research done at Xerox PARC deserves most of the credit for the invention of the modern graphical user interface. The Xerox Alto had a mouse in the mid 70’s. PARC improved a bit on Engelbart’s design (Engelbart had two wheels, PARC moved the two wheels inside the mouse and added the ball), and PARC’s design basically dominated mice until the optical mouse took over. The Alto was never released as a commercial product, and when Xerox did release a commercial product, it looked a lot more like an IBM PC (it had no mouse and no GUI). Eventually, they did release the Xerox 8010, which was the first commercial computer to have a GUI, folders, icons, etc. [/QUOTE] You don’t give Apple enough credit. True, the PARC computers had mice, and the computer PSAs that were on when I was a kid mentioned the mouse, but it was not particularly useful for most DOS et.al. apps. The 8010 may have come out first, but the Apple Macintosh was the first one that most people ever heard of. If it weren’t for Apple, the 8010 would have remained an unsuccessful curiosity, and Windows would have remained a fairly ugly and unused program. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/14 "2007-11-26T07:04:20Z")
[QUOTE=Derleth] ¥Two things: Prior art doesn’t prevent you from getting a patent, but it might prevent you from using it as a club in court. [/QUOTE] Really? IANAL but [this](http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+35USC102): > [@](#): > > Sec. 102. Conditions for patentability; novelty and loss of right to patent > > ``` > A person shall be entitled to a patent unless-- > (a) the invention was known or used by others in this country, or patented or described in a printed publication in this or a foreign country, before the invention thereof by the applicant for patent, or > > ``` > > (…) > > (f) he did not himself invent the subject matter sought to be patented I’m not saying Apple couldn’t have taken patents on improvements they might have made to mouse design, but it does look like they could not have obtained a patent for “the mouse” itself. ---
**Author:** ![jovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/0ea827/32.png) [@jovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jovan)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/15 "2007-11-26T07:21:07Z")
I thought some people might appreciate a blast from the past with a video of Doug Engelbart showing off a mouse-based text editing application. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4kp9Ciy1nE) This was in 1968. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/16 "2007-11-26T07:38:17Z")
Mice were being employed in CAD/CAM machines prior to the Mac. Unlike light pens, mice could be used to very carefully control cursor movement on a grid. They also did not require that the user place an object on the screen that obscured some portion of the screen with the “pen” and the user’s hand. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/17 "2007-11-26T08:47:59Z")
[QUOTE=scotandrsn] You don’t give Apple enough credit. True, the PARC computers had mice, and the computer PSAs that were on when I was a kid mentioned the mouse, but it was not particularly useful for most DOS et.al. apps. The 8010 may have come out first, but the Apple Macintosh was the first one that most people ever heard of. If it weren’t for Apple, the 8010 would have remained an unsuccessful curiosity, and Windows would have remained a fairly ugly and unused program. [/QUOTE] I agree. The question here (thread title) is not ‘who invented the mouse?’, it’s _‘why did the mouse catch on?’_ - and it’s impossible to ignore Apple’s role in bringing it to the consumer market. ---
**Author:** ![Galwegian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galwegian/32/3426_2.png) [@Galwegian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galwegian)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/18 "2007-11-26T09:37:58Z")
IIRC, the Apple Lisa was out before the Mac, and was the first that I can remember that was marketed with a mouse as part of the package. It was big news at the time, at least to _this_ teenage computer geek! ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/19 "2007-11-26T10:15:09Z")
**jovan** : There are so many existing software patents that should have been denied based on that clause I refuse to believe the USPTO is competent to apply the law in the general case. My point was that if any of those patents are used in court against a prepared and competent defendant, the patent will be exploded based on that prior art. **tomndebb** : That is interesting and very much on-topic. (Unlike the rest of this post.) If mice had already succeeded once, breaking into the desktop market would have been that much easier. And it’s easier to believe that the CAD/CAM market would be willing to adopt nonstandard hardware with an advantage over the traditional way of doing things. _Real_ competition, like the threat of execution, focuses the mind wonderfully. ---
**Author:** ![Anaglyph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Anaglyph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaglyph)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2007, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764/20 "2007-11-26T10:23:20Z")
A mouse is not much use without a graphical user interface. Apple popularized the system-wide graphical user interface which made a pointing device useful for any application. Before Apple, pen-and-tablet pointing devices were mainly used within specialized graphics application, where the higher precision of the tablet offset the disadvantage of it cluttering up a lot of desk space. In the command line interface of the other operating systems available at the time, a mouse was not much use. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-computer-mouse-catch-on/427764.md?page=2)