# Why did the credits move from the beginning to the end of a movie? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 27, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910 "2002-09-27T18:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/1 "2002-09-27T18:29:26Z")
Somewhen around the 60’s, it seems that the “complete” set of credits gradually moved from the beginning of a movie to the end. Does anybody know what prompted the switch? Is there anything beyond “People didn’t wanna sit through the credits before seeing the movie”? ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/2 "2002-09-27T18:49:38Z")
I think you probably hit it on the head. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/3 "2002-09-27T19:02:44Z")
Because movie credits got longer and longer. Putting them at the end at least allowed moviegoers to exit as they pleased while the credits were rolling. Or, if you’re like me, to read through every last credit (what can I say, I find credits interesting). Why did credit get longer? Better union contracts for the people in front of and behind the camera that guaranteed screen billing. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/4 "2002-09-27T20:36:26Z")
Additional information can be found in previous threads [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54961) and [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15142). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/5 "2002-09-28T01:44:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > Why did credit get longer? Better union contracts for the people in front of and behind the camera that guaranteed screen billing. \*\* I would also guess that you need a shitload more people these days to make a major motion picture. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/6 "2002-09-28T01:52:20Z")
It might help with shaving a few minutes off the movie time. People start filing out of the movie while its technically still playing, and they can get a jump on cleaning before the next show starts. I think the OP is correct though. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/7 "2002-09-28T03:11:50Z")
The credits of _Citizen Kane_ are at the end. Orson Welles introduces the players, since they were famous in radio but unknown to film. That’s 1941, credits at the end. Perhaps an anomaly, but it does prove that the switch wasn’t abrupt. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2002, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/8 "2002-09-28T14:57:59Z")
Welles also “narrates” the credits of _The Magnificent Ambersons_ at the end of the film. It seems Welles was the innovator of end credits-just as he was many other things. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/9 "2002-09-29T07:27:16Z")
I kinda think Orson knew end-credits were the trend and wanted to have some fun. His end-credit over-dubbing is something I’ve not seen done besides. From IMDB: > [@](#): > > All of the credits - cast and production crew - are recited orally (by > Orson Welles) at the end of the film, not written out onscreen. As Welles > recites the names of the production crew, we see such items as a motion > picture camera when he says “Director of Photography”, a pair of hands > turning knobs as he says the words “Sound Recording By”, etc. …and from there I was inspired to pull out - not any Orson DVD’s - but **Monty Python and the Holy Grail** > [@](#): > > All the credits are at the beginning. There are no credits at the end. > The screen goes black. > > The following are inserted into the real opening credits. They start as > subtitles “translating” the credits into a “Pidgin-English-Swedish”. > (Though genuine Swedish does not use ø or ë.) > > Mønti Pythøn ik den Hølie Gräilen {[and so forth…](http://us.imdb.com/CrazyCredits?0071853)} ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/10 "2002-09-29T13:07:39Z")
It is also very possible that as the transition from Head titles to Tails titles got going, stars and so-called “Above The Line” personnel found a chance to negotiate for some extra attention. Typically now, the people whose names are listed on the One- Sheet are also given credits at the head of a film. Then, the entire production team is credited at the tail. Such things are in fact finely detailed in the contracts of all players and personnel. When the movie **"The Sting** was made, Julia Phillips didn’t know to have her agent specify size AND thickness of the type font in the credits in the picture. Sure enough, there’s her husband’s credit in easy to read type, and then her name appears…wafer thin. It’s the HEIGHT specified in her contract of course, but since she never specified the thickness of the letters, her name is shall we say, barely there? Negotiating and getting a credit “above the Title” is a big thing. So, although I doubt it read just like this, you might have seen the following: \*\* Robert Redford Paul Newman THE STING\*\* ```auto **THE STING** Robert Redford Paul Newman Robert Shaw .........and so on. Cartooniverse ``` ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/11 "2002-09-29T19:06:27Z")
Wasn’t _The Sting_ also the movie that innovated double-billing of famously big-egoed co-stars? IIRC, Newman and Redford’s names appear on screen simultaneously, one above the other but further to the right, so that if you read top-down, one name comes first but if you read left-right, the other does. Also, I remember reading that the Director’s Guild wanted to fine George Lucas for not listing any credits at the beginning of _Star Wars_. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-credits-move-from-the-beginning-to-the-end-of-a-movie/129910/12 "2002-09-29T23:11:50Z")
Indeed yes, **KtN.** Lucas actually resigned from the DGA over the issue. But to pick a nit, it wasn’t “not listing _any_ credits at the beginning.” The agreements said there were two options: Give the studio and the title, and start the movie, and then at the end begin the credits with “directed by.” (Recently, _Titanic_ does this.) Or put all the credits up front. _Star Wars_, you will recall, begins with the studio, then says “Lucasfilm,” then goes to the title. That little “Lucasfilm” was the source of the dispute; it effectively cheats by putting Lucas’s credit all alone up front, and then pushes the rest to the end. If Lucas had been willing to dump the “Lucasfilm,” there would have been no problem.