# Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524 "2018-08-13T15:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/201 "2019-12-13T20:03:32Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > We’re not talking about Trump, we’re talking about the FISC, please stay on topic. Ok, let’s stay on topic. WHY do you think the FBI “lied” (your words, not mine) about Carter Page? What, in your view, was the motivation? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/202 "2019-12-13T20:22:44Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You can come with all kinds of analogies but what you can’t do is provide a cite where Carter Page is an agent of a foreign power and that foreign power being Russia. You keep bouncing around between two different subjects, Page being an agent of Russia and the email that was falsified, which talked about him being a source for the CIA. I’m happy to talk about him being an agent of Russia, but I don’t want to have to come back to the CIA topic again. Are we good on the CIA subject? If so, then I am quite happy to post a selection of quotes from the document that establish Page as a foreign agent. If not, then let’s make sure that we’re all good before changing topics. Are we also good on the concept that one can be both a contact of the CIA and Russia and that those are not mutually exclusive? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/203 "2019-12-13T20:36:51Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Ok, let’s stay on topic. WHY do you think the FBI “lied” (your words, not mine) about Carter Page? What, in your view, was the motivation? I don’t know what their motivation was but I do know they lied and the IG Report confirms that. Also there’s this, footnote 461 from the IG Report: > [@](#): > > The only express direction we found that McCabe gave regarding the use of a CHS > concerned a former FBI CHS, who contacted an FBI agent in an FBI field office in late July 2016 to > report information from “a colleague who runs an investigative firm … hired by two entities (the > Democratic National Committee [DNC] as well as another individual…[who was] not name[d]) to > explore Donald Trump’s longstanding ties to Russian entities.” The former CHS also gave the FBI > agent a list of “individuals and entities who have surfaced in [the investigative firm’s] examination,” > which the former CHS described as “mostly public source material.” In mid-September 2016, McCabe > told SSA 1 to instruct the FBI agent from the field office not to have any further contact with the > former CHS, and not to accept any information regarding the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. > McCabe told the OIG he did not remember giving those instructions, and could not tell us why he > might have done so. We found no evidence that the FBI reopened the former CHS for the Crossfire > Hurricane investigation, or tasked the former CHS in connection with the Crossfire Hurricane > investigation. The Crossfire Hurricane operation opened on July 31, 2016 but McCabe seems to have gotten information from Christopher Steele prior to the date. Which seems to imply the investigation was triggered by the Steele Dossier. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/204 "2019-12-13T20:39:14Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You keep bouncing around between two different subjects, Page being an agent of Russia and the email that was falsified, which talked about him being a source for the CIA. > > I’m happy to talk about him being an agent of Russia, but I don’t want to have to come back to the CIA topic again. Are we good on the CIA subject? If so, then I am quite happy to post a selection of quotes from the document that establish Page as a foreign agent. If not, then let’s make sure that we’re all good before changing topics. > > Are we also good on the concept that one can be both a contact of the CIA and Russia and that those are not mutually exclusive? Please provide a cite for what you know a CIA Operational Contact to be. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/205 "2019-12-13T20:41:26Z")
SO WHAT? It does not change anything that happened in 2016. The facts are still the same. You can’t even make a guess as to what the motivation was? Is that because you truly do not know (in which case there is no motive for malfeasance that you can imagine), or you just do not want to admit what this is all about for you. You should know that it is very clear, even if you don’t admit it. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/206 "2019-12-13T20:44:46Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > SO WHAT? It does not change anything that happened in 2016. The facts are still the same. You can’t even make a guess as to what the motivation was? Is that because you truly do not know (in which case there is no motive for malfeasance that you can imagine), or you just do not want to admit what this is all about for you. You should know that it is very clear, even if you don’t admit it. You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/207 "2019-12-13T20:46:33Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? This could be one of the unintentionally funniest posts I’ve ever read on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/208 "2019-12-13T20:50:26Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? :rolleyes: I’ll tell you what, when you answer the questions posed to you, then I’ll answer yours. Ball is in your court. Just know that all of these pages of work you’ve put in on this means nothing and hasn’t changed a single thing, nor will it. What happened in 2016 is what happened. You cannot erase that with this magic bullet you think you’ve found. You are essentially a tinfoil-hatter at this point. You can’t even articulate what you think the grand motive behind this was. What is a conspiracy theory without a motive? Lunacy. That’s what. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/209 "2019-12-13T20:54:13Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > :rolleyes: > > I’ll tell you what, when you answer the questions posed to you, then I’ll answer yours. Ball is in your court. Just know that all of these pages of work you’ve put in on this means nothing and hasn’t changed a single thing, nor will it. What happened in 2016 is what happened. You cannot erase that with this magic bullet you think you’ve found. You are essentially a tinfoil-hatter at this point. You can’t even articulate what you think the grand motive behind this was. What is a conspiracy theory without a motive? Lunacy. That’s what. Why are you resorting to name calling? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/210 "2019-12-13T20:56:49Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Why are you resorting to name calling? Why are you refusing to answer pertinent questions posed to you? Also saying you are like a tinfoil-hatter is not name calling, it’s a simile, not an insult. Just letting you know how you are coming across because I don’t think you are aware. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/211 "2019-12-13T20:57:54Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Why are you resorting to name calling? Why are you avoiding answering the question posed? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/212 "2019-12-13T21:07:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Why are you avoiding answering the question posed? What question? What do you want me to answer? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/213 "2019-12-13T21:17:25Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? No, he’s not. The words you responded to are “so what?” That’s not a denial; that’s a desperate plea for you to get to the point. Do you take the position that any particular law enforcement investigation is invalid, and the findings erroneous, if it can be shown that some aspect of the investigation is incorrect? I mean, by virtue of not even hypothesizing a reason, you are essentially saying that it doesn’t matter why any error was made - malicious, lazy, incompetent - it doesn’t matter. An error - any error - can be mentioned over and over and it is, to you, self evident that nothing that was uncovered even needs to be considered. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/214 "2019-12-13T21:20:05Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Please provide a cite for what you know a CIA Operational Contact to be. Nobody, including you, has disputed what he’s written about Operational Contacts. Thus, there is no need to cite anything. If you think it means something else, nobody is stopping you from making a claim. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/215 "2019-12-13T21:23:59Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > What question? What do you want me to answer? What did the FBI lie about and, more importantly, what was their motive for doing so? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/216 "2019-12-13T22:03:10Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I don’t know what their motivation was… Just speculate. I want to hear your opinion on the question that you posed in the title of the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/217 "2019-12-13T22:36:25Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Please provide a cite for what you know a CIA Operational Contact to be. Footnote page 358: > [@](#): > > As described in Chapter Five, according to the U.S. government agency, “operational contact,” as that term is used in the memorandum about Page, provides “Contact Approval,” which allows the agency to contact and discuss sensitive information with a U.S. Person and to collect information from that person via “passive debriefing,” or debriefing a person of information that is within the knowledge of an individual and has been acquired through the normal course of that individual’s activities. According to the U.S. government agency, a “Contact Approval” does not allow for operational use of a U.S. Person or tasking of that person. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/218 "2019-12-14T16:36:01Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Why are you resorting to name calling? How come it’s “name-calling” when it’s directed at a Trump fan but acceptable when Trump falsely accuses people by the handful? One standard for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/219 "2019-12-14T18:28:02Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? **YES** ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/220 "2019-12-14T20:16:07Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > You’re saying the FBI didn’t lie about Carter Page? The FBI, as an organization, did not lie about Carter Page. One person, within the organization, \* arguably \* lied but that seems to have been out of laziness not malevolence and his lie was, likely, _inconsequential_. It’s supposition but, likely, the judge would have reapproved the warrant if he had known about the CIA connection. In fact, the larger concern within the FBI was whether they needed to care about the connection since they don’t want to arrest someone who is a CIA agent nor waste time snooping on someone who would possibly just tell you everything that he knows and that you could trust was telling the truth and would include any information on criminal activities if there was any. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=12)