# Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524 "2018-08-13T15:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/221 "2019-12-15T03:50:49Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The FBI, as an organization, did not lie about Carter Page. > > One person, within the organization, \* arguably \* lied but that seems to have been out of laziness not malevolence and his lie was, likely, _inconsequential_. It’s supposition but, likely, the judge would have reapproved the warrant if he had known about the CIA connection. In fact, the larger concern within the FBI was whether they needed to care about the connection since they don’t want to arrest someone who is a CIA agent nor waste time snooping on someone who would possibly just tell you everything that he knows and that you could trust was telling the truth and would include any information on criminal activities if there was any. This is nonsense, teams of people worked on the FISA application not one person. There were multiple errors/omissions on all of the applications. The Judge would not have re-approved the application if the exculpatory information was included. Carter Page is an American Citizen not an agent of a foreign power nor was he working for one. You’re spreading disinformation. What are you doing that? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/222 "2019-12-15T03:52:09Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Nobody, including you, has disputed what he’s written about Operational Contacts. Thus, there is no need to cite anything. If you think it means something else, nobody is stopping you from making a claim. He’s spreading disinformation in an attempt to cover for and make excuses for the FBI and their behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/223 "2019-12-15T04:25:23Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > He’s spreading disinformation in an attempt to cover for and make excuses for the FBI and their behavior. I’m going to have to take that as an accusation of lying, EasyPhil. That’s not allowed here and you should know that. Warning issued. Please don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/224 "2019-12-15T04:38:39Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > This is nonsense, teams of people worked on the FISA application not one person. There were multiple errors/omissions on all of the applications. **The Judge would not have re-approved the application if the exculpatory information was included.** Carter Page is an American Citizen not an agent of a foreign power nor was he working for one. You’re spreading disinformation. What are you doing that? CITE for the bolded (by me) part? Last I understood the final analysis by the IG - this is simply false. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/225 "2019-12-15T04:39:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It’s supposition but, likely, the judge would have reapproved the warrant if he had known about the CIA connection. > [@EasyPhil](#): > > The Judge would not have re-approved the application if the exculpatory information was included. Hmmmmm… these two statements don’t agree with each other. And it’s just a dead-even toss-up as to which poster has made the better case for their point of view using available facts and logic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/226 "2019-12-15T05:42:59Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Carter Page is an American Citizen not an agent of a foreign power nor was he working for one. You do not need to be a foreign citizen in order to be an agent of a foreign power. That is the “2” in the reference number for the US code definition that the FBI gave (50 U.S. Code § 1801(b)**(2)**(E). Since you seem to have lost interest in the CIA question, here are your quotes for the matter of Page being an agent of a foreign power: (Page numbers given as the quotee.) > [@61](#): > > C. The Pre-Existing FBI New York Field Office Counterintelligence Investigation of Carter Page Now, there’s no real need to break this quote here, but I feel like it merits a moment of reflection on that second word there, in the above. What pre-existing means is, “before Carter Page had any connection what-so-ever to the Donald Trump campaign” he was already under investigation by the FBI as a national security risk. I would put it to you that the FBI can neither foretell the future nor can they travel back in time. With that being my stance, I put it to you that they were investigating Carter Page for being an agent of Russia not out of political animosity towards Donald Trump but, rather, because Carter Page had done some shit. > [@61-63](#): > > As reflected in the FISA applications described in Chapters Five and Seven, as well as in other FBI documents, NYFO had an interest in Carter Page for several years before August 2016 and had interviewed him on multiple occasions because of his relationships with individuals the FBI knew to be Russian intelligence officers. > > An FBI counterintelligence agent in NYFO (NYFO CI Agent) with extensive experience in Russian matters told the OIG that Carter Page had been on NYFO’s radar since 2009, when he had contact with a known Russian intelligence officer (Intelligence Officer 1). According to the EC documenting NYFO’s June 2009 interview with Page, Page told NYFO agents that he knew and kept in regular contact with Intelligence Officer 1 and provided him with a copy of a non-public annual report from an American company. The EC stated that Page “immediately advised [the agents] that due to his work and overseas experiences, he has been questioned by and provides information to representatives of [another U.S. government agency] on an ongoing basis.” The EC also noted that agents did not ask Page any questions about his dealings with the other U.S. government agency during the interviews. 180 > > NYFO CI agents believed that Carter Page was “passed” from Intelligence Officer 1 to a successor Russian intelligence officer {Intelligence Officer 2) in 2013 and that Page would continue to be introduced to other Russian intelligence officers in the future. 181 In June 2013, NYFO CI agents interviewed Carter Page about these contacts. Page acknowledged meeting Intelligence Officer 2 following an introduction earlier in 2013. When agents intimated to Carter Page during the interview that Intelligence Officer 2 may be a Russian intelligence officer, specifically, an “SVR” officer, Page told them. he believed in “openness” and because he did not have access to classified information, his acquaintance with Intelligence Officer 2 was a “positive” for him. In August 2013, NYFO CI agents again interviewed Page regarding his contacts with Intelligence Officer 2. Page acknowledged meeting with Intelligence Officer 2 since his June 2013 FBI interview. > > In January 2015, three Russian intelligence officers, including Intelligence Officer 2, were charged in a sealed complaint, and subsequently indicted, in the Southern District of New York (SDNY) for conspiring to act in the United States as unregistered agents of the Russian Federation. 182 The indictment referenced Intelligence Officer 2’s attempts to recruit “Male-1” as an asset for gathering intelligence on behalf of Russia. > > On March 2, 2016, the NYFO CI Agent and SDNY Assistant United States Attorneys interviewed Carter Page in preparation for the trial of one of the indicted Russian intelligence officers. During the interview, Page stated that he knew he was the person referred to as Male-1 in the indictment and further said that he had identified himself as Male-1 to a Russian Minister and various Russian officials at a United Nations event in “the spirit of openness.” The NYFO CI Agent told us she returned to her office after the interview and discussed with her supervisor opening a counterintelligence case on Page based on his statement to Russian officials that he believed he was Male-1 in the indictment and his continued contact with Russian intelligence officers. > > The FBI’s NYFO CI squad supervisor (NYFO CI Supervisor) told us she believed she should have opened a counterintelligence case on Carter Page prior to March 2, 2016 based on his continued contacts with Russian intelligence officers; however, she said the squad was preparing for a big trial, and they did not focus on Page until he was interviewed again on March 2. She told us that after the March 2 interview, she called CD’s Counterespionage Section at FBI Headquarters to determine whether Page had any security clearances and to ask for guidance as to what type of investigation to open on Page. 183 On April 1, 2016, the NYFO CI Supervisor received an email from the Counterespionage Section advising her to open a \_\_\_\_\_ investigation on Page. The NYFO CI Supervisor said that \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ In addition, according to FBI records, the relevant CD section at FBI Headquarters, in consultation with OGC, determined at that time that the Page investigation opened by NYFO was not a SIM, but also noted, “should his status change, the appropriate case modification would be made.” The NYFO CI Supervisor told us that based on what was documented in the file and what was known at that time, the NYFO Carter Page investigation was not a SIM. > > Although Carter Page was announced as a foreign policy advisor for the Trump campaign prior to NYFO receiving this guidance from FBI Headquarters, the NYFO CI Supervisor and CI Agent both told the OIG that this announcement did not influence their decision to open a case on Page and that their concerns about Page, particularly his disclosure to the Russians about his role in the indictment, predated the announcement. However, the NYFO CI Supervisor said that the announcement required noting his new position in the case file should his new position require he obtain a security clearance. > > On April 6, 2016, NYFO opened a counterintelligence - investigation on Carter Page under a code name the FBI assigned to him (NYFO investigation) based on his contacts with Russian intelligence officers and his statement to Russian officials that he was “Male-1” in the SDNY indictment. Based on our review of documents in the NYFO case file, as well as our interview of the NYFO CI Agent, there was limited investigative activity in the NYFO investigation between April 6 and the Crossfire Hurricane team’s opening of its investigation of Page on August 10. The NYFO CI Agent told the OIG that the steps she took in the first few months of the case were to observe whether any other intelligence officers contacted Page and to prepare national security letters seeking Carter Page’s cell phone number(s) and residence information. The NYFO CI agent said that she did not use any CHSs to target Page during the NYFO investigation. The NYFO investigation was transferred to the Crossfire Hurricane team on August 10 and became part of the Crossfire Hurricane investigation. > [@122](#): > > The Crossfire Hurricane team told us that the proposal for FISA coverage targeting Carter Page originated from the team, not an instruction from management. The team also told us that its interest in obtaining a FISA was based upon Page’s prior contacts with known Russian intelligence officers, which the team believed made him most receptive to receiving the offer of assistance from the Russians reported in the FFG information (described in Chapter Three) provided to the FBI in late July 2016. > [@146](#): > > 1. October Meeting between Page and an FBI CHS > > As we summarize in Chapter Ten, in October 2016, before the FBI obtained the initial FISA authority targeting Carter Page, an FBI CHS had a consensually monitored meeting with Page. During the meeting, among other things, Page said that he wanted to develop a research institute and, in talking about how he would fund the institute, Page said, "I don’t want to say there’d be an open checkbook, but the Russians would definitely … " According to the partial transcript, the sentence trailed off as Carter Page laughed. The CHS then stated “they would fund it-yeah you could do alright there” and Page responded “Yeah, but that has its pros and cons, right?” At another point in the conversation, Page noted that he had “a longstanding constructive relationship with the Russians going back throughout” his life. When asked about the link between the Russians and Wikileaks, Page said that, “[as he has] made clear in a lot of … subsequent discussions/interviews … .! know nothing about that-on a personal level, you know no one’s ever said a word to me.” With regard to the platform committee during the Republican National Convention, Page said that he “stayed clear of that-there was a lot of conspiracy. theories that I was one of them … [but] totally off the record … members of our team were working on that, and … .in retrospect it’s way better off that !..remained at arms length.” If you continue to read on, the report then makes it clear that Page denied various allegations in the Steele Report and that these denials were not included in the FISA application: > [@](#): > > Carter Page also told the CHS during the meeting that the “core lie” against him in the media “is that [Page] met with these sanctioned Russian officials, several of which I’ve never met in my entire life.” Page said that the “core lie” concerned “Sechin [who] is the main guy, the head of Rosneft … [and] there’s another guy I had never even heard of, you know he’s like, in the inner circle.” When asked about that person’s name, Page said “I can’t even remember, it’s just so outrageous.” > > The Crossfire Hurricane team provided to 01 some, but not all, of the information obtained during this meeting for inclusion in the first FISA application. According to the description in the FISA application, Page met with the FBI CHS on a particular date in October and made statements that led the FBI to believe that Page continued to be closely tied to Russian officials, including the suggestion that “the Russians” would be giving him an “open checkbook” to fund a foreign policy think tank project. The description also stated that Page told the CHS that he may be appearing in a televised interview to discuss the potential for change in U.S. foreign policy toward Russia and Syria in the event Trump wins the presidential election. However, as discussed later in this chapter, the application filed with the court did not fully or accurately describe the information obtained by the FBI as a result of this meeting because the FBI did not advise 01 that Page denied meeting with Sechin and Divyekin, as alleged in Report 94, or that Page denied knowing anything about the disclosure by WikiLeaks of hacked DNC emails, as alleged in Report 95. Now, I grant that you probably read that as a smoking gun of, “The FBI lied about Carter Page!” And I can’t stop you from reading that passage through beer goggles. But let me point out that little thing called the Miranda Warning. The point of Miranda is to tell criminals that if they tell the police something, the police can and will use that information against them. The job of the police is not to tell the story in the way that the perp would _wish_ that they told it, it’s in the way that is most revealing of the perp’s criminal intentions. Imagine, for example, that someone tells you, while looking at a 10 year old girl in a bikini, “Aw man, the things I’d do to that one.” And then, a moment later says, “Pff, as if. Like I’d do that sort of thing!” When someone says something revealing of their inner mind, the plastering over of that which follows isn’t particularly convincing. It’s fair to assume that we were just granted an inner glimpse of the reality and that, then, the person tried to bluff their way out of it. A denial of a crime is not a particularly meaningful statement to a police officer. _All crooks claim their innocence._ Likewise, all non-crooks claim their innocence - because they’re actually innocent. As a metric, it doesn’t add anything. But, while denials are not useful, the innocent person would never talk in a lascivious way about a 10 year old girl nor would they talk about having an open checkbook with Russian agents. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/d-7o9xYp7eE/hqdefault.jpg "Don't Talk to the Police") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE) That the FBI did not include Page’s denials is standard operating procedure for all police, period, for all investigations. That is not a conspiratorial activity against Carter Page, that’s what we teach them to do and then pay them to do. Left-wing bleeding heartists hate that aspect of policing but, nevertheless, it is how the job is done and unless you are one of them lefties, you should be all in for letting the police trap crooks with their own admissions of criminal acts. Not specifically related to Page’s status as a foreign agent, but I feel like these further sections of the document should be pointed out: > [@128-129](#): > > On or about September 23, the 01 Attorney began work on the initial draft FISA application. At this early stage of the drafting process, Evans told us that he instructed the 01 Attorney and 01 Unit Chief to handle the Carter Page FISA application as they would any other FISA application-to make sure the work was as thorough as possible so that NSD could answer the legal question of whether the facts meet the probable cause standard-and leave any policy questions to the decision makers down the road. > > As described in Chapter Two, the read copy of a FISA application is prepared by an 01 attorney using information provided by the FBI, primarily the case agent. The 01 attorney relies heavily on the case agent to supply the necessary information and identify significant issues. NSD officials told us that the nature of FISA practice requires that 01 rely on the FBI agents who are familiar with the investigation to provide accurate and complete information. Unlike federal prosecutors, 01 attorneys are usually not involved in an investigation, or even aware of a case’s existence, unless and until 01 receives a request to initiate a FISA application. Once they receive a request, 01 attorneys generally interact with field offices remotely and do not have broad access to FBI case files or sensitive source files. According to NSD officials, even if 01 received broader access to FBI case files, the number of FISA requests that 01 attorneys are responsible for handling makes it impracticable for an 01 attorney to become intimately familiar with an FBI case file, particular one about which they have had little to no prior awareness. 266 In addition, NSD told us that 01 attorneys are not in the best position to sift through a voluminous FBI case file because they do not have the background knowledge and context to meaningfully assess all the information. > [@132-133](#): > > To further address reliability, the 01 Attorney sought information from the FBI to describe the source network in the FISA application. On multiple occasions, the 01 Attorney asked the FBI questions about the sub-sources, including in a September 30, 2016 email in which he asked Case Agent 1 and the Crossfire Hurricane team: “If the reporting is being made by a primary source, but based on sub-sources, why is it reliable-even though second/third hand?” The OIG did not find a written response to this specific question, and the 01 Attorney did not recall a response. However, the 01 Attorney told us that the Crossfire Hurricane team eventually briefed him on the sub-source information they learned from Steele after their early October meeting with him (described in Chapter Four). He also received a written summary of this information that the Supervisory Intel Analyst prepared shortly after the October meeting. The 01 Attorney told us that based on the information the FBI provided, he thought at the time that some of the sub-sources were “definitely” in a position to have had access to the information Steele was reporting. > [@134-135](#): > > Baker told us that he also remembered being satisfied at the time that there was probable cause articulated in the draft application to believe that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power. He said that it was difficult for him to fully explain to us the basis for his assessment without reviewing the entire application again, but that he recalled Page’s continuing relationships with Russian intelligence officers, even after the FBI made Page aware that they were Russian intelligence officers, being “key” facts in his mind. 271 Further, he said that, in retrospect, he thought that Page’s knowing interactions with Russian intelligence officers could have established probable cause even without reliance on the reporting from Steele. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/227 "2019-12-15T07:14:20Z")
Some additional notes: 1. A “SIM” is a case that is politically sensitive. For example, investigating a Presidential candidate would be a SIM. If Page was going to be investigated as a non-SIM, just before joining Trump, that is an indication that there was no sense by those who wanted to investigate him that there were any political nor special ramifications worth note in investigating his Russian connections. 2. James Baker now works at the R Street Institute, a Republican think tank. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/228 "2019-12-15T13:46:22Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > He’s spreading disinformation in an attempt to cover for and make excuses for the FBI and their behavior. You still haven’t disputed what he and your cite say an operational contact is, or told us what you think the term means instead. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/229 "2019-12-15T18:40:58Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > You still haven’t disputed what he and your cite say an operational contact is, or told us what you think the term means instead. It’s pretty clear that Carter Page was working with the CIA and wasn’t an agent of a foreign power. This is why the FBI altered an email and used that doctored evidence for the warrant. They knew this information all along. Today you had Comey on Fox News finally admitting that Horowitz was right. [Comey Interview with Chris Wallace](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yfXxeJn3Tc) ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/230 "2019-12-15T18:42:29Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Some additional notes: > > 1. A “SIM” is a case that is politically sensitive. For example, investigating a Presidential candidate would be a SIM. If Page was going to be investigated as a non-SIM, just before joining Trump, that is an indication that there was no sense by those who wanted to investigate him that there were any political nor special ramifications worth note in investigating his Russian connections. > > 2. James Baker now works at the R Street Institute, a Republican think tank. Carter Page was working with the CIA and forwarding information from those Russian Contacts to them. The FBI used that information to bolster the FISA warrant knowing full well that Carter Page was working with the CIA. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/231 "2019-12-15T18:47:54Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Carter Page was working with the CIA and forwarding information from those Russian Contacts to them. The FBI used that information to bolster the FISA warrant knowing full well that Carter Page was working with the CIA. Fantasy. That’s not what the report shows. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/232 "2019-12-15T18:49:42Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Fantasy. That’s not what the report shows. It’s not fantasy, read the report. > [@](#): > > Omitted information the FBI had obtained from > another U.S. government agency detailing its > prior relationship with Page, including that Page > had been approved as an “operational contact” > for the other agency from 2008 to 2013, and > that Page had provided information to the other > agency concerning his prior contacts with certain > Russian intelligence officers, one of which > overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA > application; This is the first of seven “significant inaccuracies and omisisons” in the IG Report. If you want to argue this isn’t true, provide a cite contradicting it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/233 "2019-12-15T18:51:07Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s not fantasy, read the report. I have. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/234 "2019-12-15T18:57:05Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s pretty clear that Carter Page was working with the CIA and wasn’t an agent of a foreign power. You’ve now had multiple opportunities to dispute the definition, which you requested, of an Operational Contact and have chosen not to do so. That’s because you can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/235 "2019-12-15T18:58:08Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Carter Page was working with the CIA and forwarding information from those Russian Contacts to them. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/236 "2019-12-15T18:58:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Omitted information the FBI had obtained from > another U.S. government agency detailing its > prior relationship with Page, including that Page > had been approved as an “operational contact” > for the other agency from 2008 to 2013, and > that Page had provided information to the other > agency concerning his prior contacts with certain > Russian intelligence officers, one of which > overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA > application; That is not the same things as… > [@EasyPhil](#): > > Carter Page was working with the CIA and forwarding information from those Russian Contacts to them. The FBI used that information to bolster the FISA warrant knowing full well that Carter Page was working with the CIA. The first is a quote from the report. The other is pure fantasy. They do not say the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/237 "2019-12-15T19:02:05Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > That is not the same things as… > > The first is a quote from the report. The other is pure fantasy. > > They do not say the same thing. To you, what does that quote from the report say? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/238 "2019-12-15T19:05:04Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > To you, what does that quote from the report say? Is this a real question? It says… > [@](#): > > Omitted information the FBI had obtained from > another U.S. government agency detailing its > prior relationship with Page, including that Page > had been approved as an “operational contact” > for the other agency from 2008 to 2013, and > that Page had provided information to the other > agency concerning his prior contacts with certain > Russian intelligence officers, one of which > overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA > application; What are you getting at? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/239 "2019-12-15T19:18:23Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > To you, what does that quote from the report say? It says what Carter Page himself said: [https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/09/carter\_page\_says\_he\_consulted\_for\_fbi\_cia\_state\_department\_for\_years\_before\_becoming\_subject\_of\_russia\_probe.html](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/09/carter_page_says_he_consulted_for_fbi_cia_state_department_for_years_before_becoming_subject_of_russia_probe.html) > [@](#): > > “I was asked various questions, not only by State, FBI, etc, but also the CIA,” he said. “I had a long-standing relationship with the CIA going back decades essentially, and I was always very transparent, open.” Which is to say, “They asked me questions. I answered their questions.” There is no “actively forwarding information to them”. Your brain invented that, just like (if you watched the previous video) everyone in that audience invented a gun that was never in the story. You have confused yourself. I’m sorry, but it’s just not what actually happened and even a site like RealClearPolitics - exactly the sort of place to drum up information in Page’s favor - does not report what you are saying because that would open them up to libel suits. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/240 "2019-12-15T19:22:09Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > It says what Carter Page himself said: > > [https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/09/carter\_page\_says\_he\_consulted\_for\_fbi\_cia\_state\_department\_for\_years\_before\_becoming\_subject\_of\_russia\_probe.html](https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/09/carter_page_says_he_consulted_for_fbi_cia_state_department_for_years_before_becoming_subject_of_russia_probe.html) > > Which is to say, “They asked me questions. I answered their questions.” > > There is no “actively forwarding information to them”. Your brain invented that, just like (if you watched the previous video) everyone in that audience invented a gun that was never in the story. > > You have confused yourself. I’m sorry, but it’s just not what actually happened and even a site like RealClearPolitics - exactly the sort of place to drum up information in Page’s favor - does not report what you are saying because that would open them up to libel suits. Stop misquoting me. I didn’t say “actively…”, you added that. Here’s what the IG Report says… > [@](#): > > and > that Page had provided information to the other > agency concerning his prior contacts with certain > Russian intelligence officers, one of which > overlapped with facts asserted in the FISA > application [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=13)