# Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524 "2018-08-13T15:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/281 "2019-12-16T20:33:24Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Currently I don’t have enough information to determine why…Does it really matter though? Sure it does. I’m not asking you to prove the reason why, I’m just asking what you think. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/282 "2019-12-16T20:52:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Sure it does. I’m not asking you to prove the reason why, I’m just asking what you think. Honestly, I don’t have enough information to answer that because I can’t get into the minds of the players involved. I will say that looking at all of the reporting there does seem to be a “bias” at play…If you hate Trump you’re more likely to believe anything that casts him in a negative light aka “confirmation bias”. Note that this bias works both ways, people that love Trump are likely to believe anything that casts him in a positive light and reject anything that casts him in a negative light. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/283 "2019-12-16T20:56:18Z")
The IG report stated that there was no appearance of bias in the process. If you are relying on the report, then you have to use the whole thing, not just the sentence here and there that you like. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/284 "2019-12-16T21:01:33Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > Honestly, I don’t have enough information to answer that because I can’t get into the minds of the players involved. I will say that looking at all of the reporting there does seem to be a “bias” at play…If you hate Trump you’re more likely to believe anything that casts him in a negative light aka “confirmation bias”. Note that this bias works both ways, people that love Trump are likely to believe anything that casts him in a positive light and reject anything that casts him in a negative light. For the record, I defended Trump on the matter that it was being said that he had a child separation policy, rather than a zero tolerance immigration policy. I have also defended the efficacy of torture, though I do not advocate for its use. Similarly, I have taken on Ilhan Omar, pointing out, for example, her chummy photos with a genuine “murder the Jews” jihadi. My partisan stance is that reality rules all and that defying reality will, inevitably, lead to harm. I don’t care which side tries to flaunt that. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/285 "2019-12-16T21:04:29Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The IG report stated that there was no appearance of bias in the process. > > If you are relying on the report, then you have to use the whole thing, not just the sentence here and there that you like. The IG Report said: > [@](#): > > We did not find documentary or testimonial evidence that political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open the four individual investigat ions John Durham said: > [@](#): > > I have the utmost respect for the mission of the Office of Inspector General and the comprehensive work that went into the report prepared by Mr. Horowitz and his staff. However, our investigation is not limited to developing information from within component parts of the Justice Department. Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S. Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened. There’s still more information to be had. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/286 "2019-12-16T21:10:24Z")
And zero motive that you can articulate. And everything the investigation found is still real, and is not in any way affected by this. Must be so frustrating for you. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/287 "2019-12-16T21:20:55Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And zero motive that you can articulate. And everything the investigation found is still real, and is not in any way affected by this. > > Must be so frustrating for you. It’s the opposite of frustrating, the truth is coming out and that’s a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/288 "2019-12-16T21:56:40Z")
If you think Page was framed, do you also think Trump, Flynn, Stone, Manafort, and/or Rudy are also being framed? Or do you draw a distinction between Page and those others? ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/289 "2019-12-16T22:24:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If you think Page was framed, do you also think Trump, Flynn, Stone, Manafort, and/or Rudy are also being framed? Or do you draw a distinction between Page and those others? For me it’s not the individuals, it’s the process that was and is the problem. What happened here is a huge scandal and everyone should be worried about it. It’s pretty obvious now that Page was framed. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/290 "2019-12-16T22:34:43Z")
Also noteworthy is that at the time Robert Mueller was appointed as special counsel the FBI already knew the dossier was garbage and the lawyer that altered the email subsequently wound up on the Mueller team but later let go. ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/291 "2019-12-16T22:49:07Z")
That darn process. If everyone would just keep focusing on the process. It doesn’t matter what the President of the United States does or says until we make the process perfect. How can you people not see that? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/292 "2019-12-16T23:22:15Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s the opposite of frustrating, the truth is coming out and that’s a good thing. Sure. You keep telling yourself that. Whatever helps you sleep at night. We’ll all just carry on as usual since this has no bearing on anything at all. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/293 "2019-12-17T00:22:05Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > It’s pretty obvious now that Page was framed. Based on? ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/294 "2019-12-17T16:03:47Z")
How could the word “framed” apply to Page when he wasn’t charged with anything? There were reports of suspicious behavior, it was properly investigated, and they found out that he’s not a traitor, just a dumbass. There’s no framing there. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/295 "2019-12-17T16:28:11Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > For me it’s not the individuals, it’s the process that was and is the problem. What happened here is a huge scandal and everyone should be worried about it. > > It’s pretty obvious now that Page was framed. Jesus, why can’t you just spit out what you’re trying to say, and stop tap-dancing around it? Are you saying that the whole “Russia tried to get Trump elected so they intervened in our election” is a hoax? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/296 "2019-12-17T16:31:09Z")
That is in fact what he is saying. He has referred to the whole Russia thing and those that believe it because of drinking Kool-Aid in other threads. He just won’t come out and say it in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/297 "2019-12-17T16:46:36Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > How could the word “framed” apply to Page when he wasn’t charged with anything? There were reports of suspicious behavior, it was properly investigated, and they found out that he’s not a traitor, just a dumbass. There’s no framing there. Was anybody else charged with anything as a result of the Page surveillance? Or even investigated? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/298 "2019-12-17T17:06:53Z")
I think it’s telling that MAGAcultists have resorted to championing the cause of a village idiot like Carter Page. I guess if that’s the best you’ve got, lead with it. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/299 "2019-12-17T17:21:20Z")
It’s because they think this is the key to erasing all of Trump’s wrongdoing because they think all of the investigations fall apart with this get out of jail free card. Insane, I know, but that’s what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/300 "2019-12-17T17:26:43Z")
I’m not reading the OP as some MAGA guy. Maybe more like “the Bilderbergs control the world’s tungsten supply!” In any case, I agree that his deep, deep, deeeeeeeeeep concern for Carter Page has nothing to do with a whole host of Trump associates being on their way to prison because of connections to Russia’s election interference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=16)