# Why did the FBI lie about Carter Page on the FISA warrent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 13, 2018, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524 "2018-08-13T15:34:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/61 "2019-04-20T01:11:39Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > The Mueller Report clearly states there was no such evidence. How would one go about determining whether or not there was such evidence? ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/62 "2019-04-20T03:35:29Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > There is no evidence. Why is anyone even continue to argue? This sums up the entire argument very succinctly and tells you all you need to know. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/63 "2019-04-20T10:57:38Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How would one go about determining whether or not there was such evidence? > [@](#): > > …issued more than 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search warrants, obtained more than 230 orders for communication records, issued almost 50 orders authorizing use of pen registers, made 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence, and interviewed approximately 500 witnesses… As you can see, a lot of resources were tasked to find this evidence, I think if it existed it would have been found. The key thing to remember is that many claimed the evidence existed but yet Mueller and his team couldn’t find it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/64 "2019-04-21T05:22:08Z")
Page 95 of the Mueller report is where section IV. A. 3. Carter Page begins. That section contains a bunch of evidence that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/65 "2019-04-21T16:55:24Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > As you can see, a lot of resources were tasked to find this evidence, I think if it existed it would have been found. The key thing to remember is that many claimed the evidence existed but yet Mueller and his team couldn’t find it. You didn’t answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/66 "2019-04-26T13:16:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > You didn’t answer my question. I did answer your question. Why do you think the Mueller team didn’t find the evidence that many claimed existed with regards to the collusion/conspiracy with Russia? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/67 "2019-04-26T13:21:55Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > As you can see, a lot of resources were tasked to find this evidence, I think if it existed it would have been found. The key thing to remember is that many claimed the evidence existed but yet Mueller and his team couldn’t find it. I’m not sure what your point is. I have seen many validly issued search warrants that don’t result in the thing they’re looking for being found. You don’t judge a warrant with hindsight. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/68 "2019-04-26T15:13:05Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I did answer your question. Why do you think the Mueller team didn’t find the evidence that many claimed existed with regards to the collusion/conspiracy with Russia? Well, the (at least) 10 cases of obstruction of justice outlined in the Muller report may have something to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/69 "2019-04-26T16:33:58Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I did answer your question. Why do you think the Mueller team didn’t find the evidence that many claimed existed with regards to the collusion/conspiracy with Russia? Mueller didn’t find evidence that Page colluded with Russia _to interfere in the 2016 election_. Mueller didn’t look for evidence that Page colluded with Russia in other ways, and the FISA warrant did not say Page’s activities as a foreign agent were limited to the 2016 election. You are adding 1 and 1 and making 3. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/70 "2019-04-26T18:37:08Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > How would one go about determining whether or not there was such evidence? You could become a federal prosecutor and conduct an investigation. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/71 "2019-04-27T01:38:51Z")
> [@EasyPhil](#): > > I did answer your question. Why do you think the Mueller team didn’t find the evidence that many claimed existed with regards to the collusion/conspiracy with Russia? Page 95 of the Mueller report is where section IV. A. 3. Carter Page begins. That section contains a bunch of evidence that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/72 "2019-04-27T14:21:24Z")
> [@RadioWave](#): > > What it denies is that the ensuing investigation uncovered any evidence that the Russians were successful in their attempt to recruit Page. If memory serves, two Russian intelligence agents (in recorded conversation) thought Page was too stupid to be a worthwhile asset. So he wasn’t even considered a ‘useful’ idiot. Which doesn’t exonerate Page in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/73 "2019-04-27T15:08:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If memory serves, two Russian intelligence agents (in recorded conversation) thought Page was too stupid to be a worthwhile asset. So he wasn’t even considered a ‘useful’ idiot. Which doesn’t exonerate Page in any way. You are basically correct. You can find out a little more about this on page 97 of vol. I of the Mueller report (in section IV. A. 3. Carter Page). That’s the part of the report that contains a ton of evidence that Page was an agent of a foreign power. For more info just follow the lead given by footnote 532 of the Mueller report, “See Buryakov Complaint; see also Indictment, United States v. Buryakov, 1:15-cr-73 (S.D.N.Y. Feb. 9, 2015), Doc. 10;” The Buryakov Complaint contains another pile of evidence that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/74 "2019-04-27T15:34:15Z")
I would quibble a bit with “agent”, in the sense outlined above that he is too damn stupid to have “agency”. For the same reason, I doubt that Il Douche is personally guilty of collaboration/collusion. The still, unblinking eye of the hurricane of shit whirling about him. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/75 "2019-04-27T15:56:51Z")
An incompetent buffoon who overestimates his abilities and thus fails in his attempt to successfully pull off a crime is still charged, and often convicted. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2019, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/76 "2019-04-28T07:15:14Z")
**Easy Phil** , are you under the impression that the Mueller probe’s goals included examining the circumstances surrounding the issuing of the FISA warrant on Page, for the purposes of either impeaching or validating it’s legitimacy? It looks to me like you’re implying that. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/77 "2019-05-19T13:41:49Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > An incompetent buffoon who overestimates his abilities and thus fails in his attempt to successfully pull off a crime is still charged, and often convicted. True, but Carter Page was never charged or convicted and more importantly the Mueller report concludes that no American conspired with Russians to interfere in the 2016 election. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/78 "2019-05-19T13:44:49Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > **Easy Phil** , are you under the impression that the Mueller probe’s goals included examining the circumstances surrounding the issuing of the FISA warrant on Page, for the purposes of either impeaching or validating it’s legitimacy? > > It looks to me like you’re implying that. No, it’s clear that isn’t in the Mueller Report but what’s clear is that the evidence that the FBI used to assert that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power i.e. Russia, was not found or made available to Mueller’s team since the report concluded that no American conspired with the Russians with respect to the 2016 election. ---
**Author:** ![EasyPhil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@EasyPhil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EasyPhil)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/79 "2019-05-19T13:47:15Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Page 95 of the Mueller report is where section IV. A. 3. Carter Page begins. > > That section contains a bunch of evidence that Carter Page was an agent of a foreign power. What does the evidence say? Why wasn’t he charged? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524/80 "2019-05-19T13:58:14Z")
You were told where to look, literally given a page number. Just read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-fbi-lie-about-carter-page-on-the-fisa-warrent/819524.md?page=5)