# Why did the Irish language increase or revive while Hawaiian didn't? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 25, 2023, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075 "2023-08-25T13:32:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/21 "2023-08-25T15:27:12Z")
I hope the OP knows something of the large scale history of English / Irish relations over the last century or two. Simplifying mightily the Irish have been resisting English imperialism and defining themselves as not-English for a long time. And they have a separate country. That country is dedicated to being not-English and not-UK. Hawaii is a US state. Like all US states, English the national language. Are some few local native ethnic Hawaiians upset about that? Sure. But they get zero official support whereas Ireland gives major official support. The USA wants to have exactly one one language spoken and used by everyone: English. I’m not going to defend that decision, but I will say it _is_ the decision. That’s really about it. A mild suggestion to our OP meant in the friendliest and welcoming of tones. I'm nobody in any position of authority or respect, just one of many old heads here in our perpetual kaffeeklatsch. Unlike other social media, you notice we mostly communicate in posts of multiple paragraphs. One-liner responses simply indicate to us that you’re not thinking, you’re just reacting. This also is not a real time medium. Give things time to percolate. Formulate a coherent response to the last several posts over the last half hour. Your ideas and topics can be interesting. And if you’ve got more than a one-track mind we’d enjoy your company as long as you’re willing to spend time with us. You have yet in any post to put forward a coherent statement of what you’d like to see happen, or why. Or how. Just ill-researched complaints and one-liners. So throw us a bone and tell us what you think and why you think it. Show your work. Not just toss out what you read someplace else. Cites to factual info are great. Vague comments that somebody somewhere said something silly on the internet are less useful and less persuasive. I mean this in the spirit of helpfulness. Although in our board culture me going even this far is frowned upon and I may attract censure for having done so. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/22 "2023-08-25T15:29:20Z")
What are you saying about me? ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/23 "2023-08-25T15:30:17Z")
OP, do you have other interests? Are you studying languages? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/24 "2023-08-25T15:34:08Z")
> [@Jagraze1](#): > > What are you saying about me Want me to hold your glasses? ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/25 "2023-08-25T15:36:30Z")
Huh?!! ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/26 "2023-08-25T15:37:27Z")
I said, “WANT ME TO HOLD YOUR GLASSES?” ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/27 "2023-08-25T15:50:07Z")
Well that made me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/28 "2023-08-25T16:01:29Z")
Ba mhaith liom a shealbhú do spéaclaí? ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/29 "2023-08-25T16:02:17Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The Hawai’ian government is an arm of the US government. That may have been true when Hawaii was still a territory. Since statehood, Hawaii is a sovereign entity in charge of its own language and education policies. Sovereign is not the same as independent; it just means the government has rights and authorities that can’t be unilaterally taken away by another level of government. The state of Hawaii could, for instance, declare Hawaiian a co-official language and mandate public signs be posted in English and Hawaiian (or even Hawaiian alone) and mandate all public school students study Hawaiian. If the federal government didn’t like it there isn’t much it could do beyond withholding federal funds. That the state has not taken those steps is because the non-native majority is not in favor of them. Native Hawaiians are literally a minority in their own home and their concerns are not much taken to heart by the majority. Some Native American tribes have seen some success in revitalizing their languages. Federally recognized tribes are also sovereign (again not the same as independent). They typically have their own publicly funded schools and the capacity to set their own educational standards free of state and federal control. Native Hawaiians don’t have the same authority. They are not federally recognized as a sovereign entity so when it comes to educating their children they have to take what the state offers (the whole state having only one public school district) or send their children to private schools. This is one of the concerns that prompts support for [federal recognition of native Hawaiians as a sovereign group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_federal_recognition_of_Native_Hawaiians) analagous to the recognition of Indian tribes. Luckily there is a good private school for native Hawaiians, the Kamehameha School funded by the estate of Princess Bernice Pauahi Pākī Bishop, a member of the former royal family. There students are expected to extensively study the Hawaiian language and native Hawaiian culture. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/30 "2023-08-25T16:08:36Z")
Hawaiian was a really different language that was unique ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/31 "2023-08-25T16:10:13Z")
I thought it was one of the Polynesian Languages. Was it especially unique? I do understand that they were geographically remote. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/32 "2023-08-25T16:12:51Z")
Everything you say is true, and I am finding it hard to articulate what I want to say. Mostly, that state sovereignty is a power the states retain on paper, but barring the bureaucratic sorting-out of who does what, it doesn’t seem to have any de jure effect. The states don’t row in a direction the big boat isn’t already going. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/33 "2023-08-25T16:13:51Z")
Is. > **Summary** > > Post must be at least five characters. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/34 "2023-08-25T16:14:54Z")
Was now since it has declined ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/35 "2023-08-25T16:15:57Z")
I feel like my state is definitely rowing the wrong way. Language issues included. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/36 "2023-08-25T16:16:29Z")
There’s a photo of the Lahaina fire that’s widely labeled as Wailoa Church, but the triangular roof shown burning is an adjacent parish hall that was the home of a Hawaiian language immersion kindergarten. Population is a big factor. The Republic of Ireland has 5 million people. Hawaii is less than 1.5 million. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/37 "2023-08-25T16:19:14Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I thought it was one of the Polynesian Languages. If Wikipedia is accurate on this, it, along with the other [Polynesian languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_languages), is considered to be an [Oceanic language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceanic_languages), a branch of the [Austronesian language](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austronesian_languages) family. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/38 "2023-08-25T16:36:50Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Population is a big factor. The Republic of Ireland has 5 million people. Hawaii is less than 1.5 million As well, RoI has some ~75% ~= 3.7m people of mostly Irish descent whereas Hawaii has ~10% ~= 150,000 ethnic mostly Hawaiians. So ethnic natives (who presumably would be more interested in cultural and linguistic preservation than others) are a much larger fraction in Ireland and are also a much larger absolute number. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/39 "2023-08-25T16:40:40Z")
Thinking about certain other states, you’re right. Too much of a hijack to go into here, though. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075/40 "2023-08-25T16:57:08Z")
Is it true that in Ireland, Caitlin is a generally common spelling while in America, Katelyn is more common? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-irish-language-increase-or-revive-while-hawaiian-didnt/989075.md?page=3)