# Why did the J Peterman Catalog go bankrupt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335 "2010-09-02T00:56:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Wikipedia_Cites)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/1 "2010-09-02T00:56:14Z")
I know the J Peterman company went bankrupt in the late nineties, despite the Seinfeld publicity (i thought the company was fictional until years later i read an article about its demise) But why? What exactly went wrong to ruin their profit margin? No wikipedia cites please . . . ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/2 "2010-09-02T01:23:53Z")
A lot of mail-order companies went bust when they couldn’t update their practices to compete with online retailers (or become online retailers themselves.) J. Peterman was already a pretty niche outfit (heheh) selling relatively expensive stuff, and the cheaper online businesses easily undercut them. In addition, J. Peterman had a relatively disastrous adventure opening retail stores. They raised a bunch of equity, opened too many stores, and couldn’t make them work. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/3 "2010-09-02T01:34:00Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > I know the J Peterman company went bankrupt in the late nineties, despite the Seinfeld publicity (i thought the company was fictional until years later i read an article about its demise) > > But why? What exactly went wrong to ruin their profit margin? > > No wikipedia cites please . . . Might have had something to do with their stuff being way overpriced (think $175 for a pair of khakis, $250 for a shirt and no, I’m not exaggerating). I admit I was one of those people that ordered the catalog out of curiosity after seeing it on Seinfeld, thinking it would be cool to buy something from there. But then I saw the prices and pretty much said “No Thanks.” I imagine a lot of other people did the same. So they were forced to print up a bunch of catalogs to send to all the Seinfeld fans, many of whom weren’t actually buying anything. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/4 "2010-09-02T01:38:05Z")
The office building I worked in (starting in 2001) had a J. Peterman on the first floor. It went out of business a few months later. There were a LOT of really cool things down there, but the prices were unbelievable. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/5 "2010-09-02T02:28:40Z")
According to [their website](http://www.jpeterman.com/), they’re still in business. According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_J._Peterman_Company): > [@](#): > > In 1997, the company raised private equity to expand. The company opened up 10 retail stores in several markets, including New York, Detroit, and San Francisco. The stores were moderately successful but the growth was too fast for the company’s small operations. Despite $75 million in sales at its peak, the company was forced into bankruptcy in 1999. > > The company was purchased by Paul Harris Stores in 1999, without the future participation of Peterman. Paul Harris Stores went bankrupt in 2000. In 2001, Peterman repurchased the name and restarted The J. Peterman Company, with O’Hurley as an investor. Tim Peterman, one of the founder’s sons, left E. W. Scripps in 2008 to become president of the company. John Peterman became Chairman. EDIT: Too bad. You get Wiki. . ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/6 "2010-09-02T02:42:53Z")
It was the urban sombrero. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/7 "2010-09-02T02:56:53Z")
It wasn’t as pricey in its earlier days, and the clothes were awesome. I never got back into him after the relaunch, but I used to be a big fan. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/8 "2010-09-02T03:08:18Z")
1\> A lot of companies went stupid around the year 2000 (+/- a few years) with wild ideas of throwing unreal amounts of money at less than clearly defined business plans and then finding, to their horror, that the old fashioned ideas of Economics still held true despite “New Economy” bullshit being spread. 2\> I used to work for a list processor. The companies who process massive lists of people and tell you who to mail shit to. Their marketing and numbers can be seductive…and absolutely false. “Send 1 million catalogs to these people, and you’ll get back N dollars”. A lot of catalog companies went down the toilet following these marketing schemes. I remember ordering $30 worth of stuff from the Gurney Seed Catalog one spring. I got five more catalogs from them that year, and a total of seven the next year, despite never making another order. Idiots spent more sending me catalogs than I spend there. Not more than their profit on their sales to me - more than their INCOME from me. That was STUPID. 3\> As the Internet rose, catalogs fell. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/9 "2010-09-02T05:07:14Z")
I’m been trying for years to remember the name of that company. They sold a pair of sunglasses (flip-tops?) back then, and the story was about sitting in a Parisian cafe trying order something in French without trying to be “native”. It was finest piece of unctuous copy I’d ever read. I tore the page out and posted in the coffee room at work; every few minutes someone would burst out laughing and spill a little coffee. ---
**Author:** ![No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Wikipedia_Cites)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/10 "2010-09-02T14:00:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > According to [their website](http://www.jpeterman.com/), they’re still in business. > > According to [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_J._Peterman_Company): > > > [@](#): > > > > In 1997, the company raised private equity to expand. The company opened up 10 retail stores in several markets, including New York, Detroit, and San Francisco. The stores were moderately successful but the growth was too fast for the company’s small operations. Despite $75 million in sales at its peak, the company was forced into bankruptcy in 1999. > > > > The company was purchased by Paul Harris Stores in 1999, without the future participation of Peterman. Paul Harris Stores went bankrupt in 2000. In 2001, Peterman repurchased the name and restarted The J. Peterman Company, with O’Hurley as an investor. Tim Peterman, one of the founder’s sons, left E. W. Scripps in 2008 to become president of the company. John Peterman became Chairman. > > EDIT: Too bad. You get Wiki. > > . I already read it before I started the thread – you just wasted 1024k bytes of wikiness. I WANT NON WIKI ANALYSIS AND ANECDOTES! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/11 "2010-09-02T14:22:21Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > I already read it before I started the thread – you just wasted 1024k bytes of wikiness. I WANT NON WIKI ANALYSIS AND ANECDOTES! This is General Questions. Anecdotes are generally for IMHO. The Wiki link (which you didn’t mention in the OP that you’d read) contains the factual answer to the question you asked, with footnotes. The first link shows that they’re back in business. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/12 "2010-09-02T14:27:05Z")
Peterman is indeed still in business. I just got a catalog from them a month or so ago. In it, Peterman (or his copywriter) says that he and the man who played him on _Seinfeld_, John O’Hurley, are now buddies and frequent golf partners. O’Hurley has sat on the Peterman corporate board since 2001. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/13 "2010-09-02T14:31:10Z")
Funny enough, I recently read a magazine article with John O’Hurley, the guy who played J Peterman on _Seinfeld_. Apparently the writers had a copy of the catalog lying around and the writing in the catalog is kind of flowery. Someone joked “Imagine if someone really talked like this!” and that’s when they introduced the character on the show — without permission! But the real J. Peterman has a sense of humor and now John O’Hurley is _really_ a co-owner of the real company. They started being profitable again and they are still in business having recovered from bankruptcy. ETA: Or what **Elendil** said. Oh, and the article was in some golf magazine. ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/14 "2010-09-02T14:52:14Z")
All the product pictures were drawn or watercolors, which I can’t imagine is cheap, and requires a bit of a leap of faith in the purchasers. ---
**Author:** ![No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@No\_Wikipedia\_Cites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/No_Wikipedia_Cites)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/15 "2010-09-02T17:08:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > This is General Questions. Anecdotes are generally for IMHO. The Wiki link (which you didn’t mention in the OP that you’d read) contains the factual answer to the question you asked, with footnotes. > > The first link shows that they’re back in business. I appreciate your responses to my thread. After all, that is why I started it, to get responses. I did not mean to imply you did anything wrong. My rule against wikipedia cites was obviously tongue-in-cheek. But I must offer you one correction, sir: The wikipedia link I cited contains **A** factual answer to my question, but not **THE** factual answer, because sir, there is more than one factual answer to a question like this, and because one explanation has been offered does not mean there are not more to be offered, if I ask. I am aware they are back in business–but my question was why they went bankrupt. Going bankrupt does not imply the company is out of business forever, merely that they filed for it. I am in no confusion as to the language I used, but you appear to be. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/16 "2010-09-03T05:50:10Z")
[John O’Hurley voice] The Small Island of Dominica. Columbus discovered it, named it, and left it alone. It is north of Martinique. And unspoiled. It’s the perfect place to disappear, to embrace the sun, the sand, and the joys of bankruptcy. To stand at the edge of the water, the surf pounding your legs and to shout defiance at the evil that is the world of catalog sales. But all shoreline adventures must end, and as the sun dissolves into the liquid chrome that is the Caribbean, one must pull on a serviceable pair of canvas shoes, throw a classic button-down 100% cotton shirt over one’s shoulders, and trudge back to civilization… And fill the lungs one last time before blazing a new trail. But what is that scent? Ah, it is sweet Failure, and it has a fairly quiet smell, less strong than anything called perfume, less strong than anything called a toiletry, but not so quiet as to be boring. It is, in fact, quite olfactory in its nature. It is motivational the way a real man begins to smell from strong sun, salt water, steel drums, breaking waves, moving palm branches and island music coming from somewhere. Men embraced Bankruptcy long before the 1800s, when Dominica was set up as a tax haven. Real men have come to these beaches since the days of the Spanish Main, to shelter their treasures from the prying eyes of the SEC. And to gaze at the setting sun from under the brim of a ball cap that Papa Hemingway would have liked. A hat he probably bought in a bait shop somewhere in this part of the Caribbean. It may have been on a rack next to the cash register, among the beef jerky wrapped in cellophane. Or maybe he saw it sitting on a tackle box in a forgotten corner of the shop. He may have had to go to some trouble to buy this one. Perhaps it belonged to the owner of the bait shop, perhaps it had never had a price tag affixed to its adjustable leather tab centered on the back, but it had to be procured. The weathered poplin, the long bill, longer than he, at least, had ever seen before, suddenly all made sense. As did the visor: leather; soft and glareless and unaffected by repeated rain squalls. The color: same as strong scalding espresso, lemon peel on the side. Cotton blend canvas. 6 brass grommets for ventilation. Elastic at back to keep this treasure from blowing off your head and into the sea that wafts the scent of fiscal mismanagement to an enlightened ex-executive who has found peace in the perfect hat. Hemingway’s Cap, number 1537. Price: $39. Sizes: M, L, XL. Imported. Shipping free when purchased with Hemingway’s Canvas Shoes ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/17 "2010-09-03T09:43:53Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Might have had something to do with their stuff being way overpriced (think $175 for a pair of khakis, $250 for a shirt and no, I’m not exaggerating). Having owned a few things from J. Peterman, I’d say that they’re worth it. I’ve had items from them that have lasted a decade before starting to look worn, and since the styles are all classic, rather than modern, they aren’t going to go out of style any more than when you bought them. You can’t just look at the up-front cost of an item in deciding its price, but at the lifetime cost. Over the life of the item, it’s likely that a J. Peterman item will be among the cheaper things you could own. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/18 "2010-09-03T12:28:29Z")
Proving that there isn’t much new under the sun here, I started a thread on J Peterman once. There is a Doper who used to work for them and knows J Peterman himself. He gave some insight into what went wrong. I get their catalog and even received on order from them a couple of months ago. I was happy with everything I bought. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533337&highlight=peterman](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=533337&highlight=peterman) ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/19 "2010-09-03T12:35:23Z")
> [@digs](#): > > [John O’Hurley voice] > > The Small Island of Dominica. Columbus discovered it, named it, and left it alone. It is north of Martinique. And unspoiled. > > It’s the perfect place to disappear, to embrace the sun, the sand, and the joys of bankruptcy. To stand at the edge of the water, the surf pounding your legs and to shout defiance at the evil that is the world of catalog sales. > > But all shoreline adventures must end, and as the sun dissolves into the liquid chrome that is the Caribbean, one must pull on a serviceable pair of canvas shoes, throw a classic button-down 100% cotton shirt over one’s shoulders, and trudge back to civilization… > > And fill the lungs one last time before blazing a new trail. But what is that scent? Ah, it is sweet Failure, and it has a fairly quiet smell, less strong than anything called perfume, less strong than anything called a toiletry, but not so quiet as to be boring. It is, in fact, quite olfactory in its nature. > > It is motivational the way a real man begins to smell from strong sun, salt water, steel drums, breaking waves, moving palm branches and island music coming from somewhere. > > Men embraced Bankruptcy long before the 1800s, when Dominica was set up as a tax haven. Real men have come to these beaches since the days of the Spanish Main, to shelter their treasures from the prying eyes of the SEC. > > And to gaze at the setting sun from under the brim of a ball cap that Papa Hemingway would have liked. A hat he probably bought in a bait shop somewhere in this part of the Caribbean. It may have been on a rack next to the cash register, among the beef jerky wrapped in cellophane. Or maybe he saw it sitting on a tackle box in a forgotten corner of the shop. > > He may have had to go to some trouble to buy this one. Perhaps it belonged to the owner of the bait shop, perhaps it had never had a price tag affixed to its adjustable leather tab centered on the back, but it had to be procured. The weathered poplin, the long bill, longer than he, at least, had ever seen before, suddenly all made sense. > > As did the visor: leather; soft and glareless and unaffected by repeated rain squalls. The color: same as strong scalding espresso, lemon peel on the side. > > Cotton blend canvas. 6 brass grommets for ventilation. Elastic at back to keep this treasure from blowing off your head and into the sea that wafts the scent of fiscal mismanagement to an enlightened ex-executive who has found peace in the perfect hat. > > Hemingway’s Cap, number 1537. Price: $39. Sizes: M, L, XL. Imported. Shipping free when purchased with Hemingway’s Canvas Shoes (Golf Clap)🙂 ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335/20 "2010-09-03T12:43:35Z")
> [@sassyfras](#): > > But why? What exactly went wrong to ruin their profit margin? White Lotus. Yam Yam. Shanghai Sally. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-j-peterman-catalog-go-bankrupt/552335.md?page=2)