# Why did the Justice Department fail to protect us from Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [October 18, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944 "2024-10-18T11:07:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/1 "2024-10-18T11:07:05Z")
Trump’s interference with certifying the 2020 election posed a grave threat to US stability. And his retention of classified documents seriously jeopardized US security. The Justice Department has had about three-and-a-half years in which to investigate and prosecute these two cases. Yet Trump remains free. Free to run for office again. Free to dismantle the rule of law if he wins another term. Even free to credibly threaten Justice Department officials with political persecution. Sure, if Trump loses, the cases might still be successfully prosecuted. But… The Justice Department had a responsibility to act in a timely manner to stop this threat from resurfacing. Yet here we are. Why did the Justice Department fail? Granted, there were serious setbacks in the form of - the July 1 Supreme Court decision giving unprecedented immunity to the president - delays and machinations in the classified-documents case by (Trump appointee) Judge Cannon But beyond that… - Did the Justice Department do everything it could do and simply get outmaneuvered? - Did it take too long in investigating and filing charges? - Do we have any evidence that the Justice Department was less than completely committed to this prosecution? If so, is it due to Attorney General Garland’s own personal approach, or perhaps to attitudes within the Department as a whole? - Was there a different approach that would have succeeded? I know we have a couple of other threads dealing with these cases, but mine is a more specific question. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/2 "2024-10-18T15:09:00Z")
When you come for the crown, you best not miss. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/3 "2024-10-18T15:19:57Z")
“When you come for the crown, you best not miss.” This, plus directly attacking your political appointment, regardless of how justified it may be, would put the Biden Administration in a tough position. Arresting and perhaps jailing your political opponent could cause a backlash that might ruin any chance of reelection. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/4 "2024-10-18T15:21:07Z")
I think Trump has gotten a lot of mileage out of the idea of prosecutions being “political interference” and I think that slowed Garland down a lot. I remember something getting put on hold because of midterm elections. Trump wasn’t running in the midterms and they should not have been a factor. I admire the way Judge Chutkan has been handling this issue so far, basically saying “I don’t do politics, I do justice so leave that complaint at the door”. Another break in Trump’s favor was his ability to appeal something during trial instead of having to wait until the end like most other people. His superpower of going to the Supreme Court over and over again is also an absurdly “lucky” break (courtesy of his hand-picked justices tipping the scales for him). If the Trump justices had to recuse themselves, he’d be in much bigger trouble. There is also the issue of Trump having unlimited money for lawyers. Nothing the Justice Department can do about that but it is an interesting observation on how innocence is essentially a purchasable commodity. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/5 "2024-10-18T15:29:01Z")
I think Trump has benefitted by hesitancy on the part of officials who wanted to maintain the appearance of fairness. This is the first time anyone’s gone after a former president and it’s not easy being the first. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/6 "2024-10-18T16:00:41Z")
I think this is plausible. Every time the hammer of justice starts lowering on his head, one of the most recognizable people in the country appears on the news, any news that knows he will react in a newsworthy way, bleating about how unfair the situation is to him. Waahhhh! All the while holding out his hand via fleece-a-rube dotcom accepting donations to help with his defense. You gotta admit - he’d got this thing down! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/7 "2024-10-18T20:06:07Z")
In addition, prosecutions of complex matters take much longer than outsiders realize. It’s become standard that prosecutors, especially at the federal level, need years to put together all the witnesses, research, and best legal approaches to cases. I recently read [The Chickenshit Club: Why the Justice Department Fails to Prosecute Executives](https://www.amazon.com/Chickenshit-Club-Department-Prosecute-Executives/dp/1501121367). The author, Jesse Einsinger, tore into the deliberate weakening of the Justice Department and the Securities and Exchange Commission mostly, but not exclusively, by Republican administrations, but also looks at individual cases and the many years of preparation by small groups of lawyers that went into even unsuccessful cases. The feds are severely underfunded and understaffed while the corporations have battalions of the best lawyers - including many who come over from the government - to throw at cases. Judges can also be a major roadblock - think of the damage Aileen Cannon has caused in the documents case. Not to mention that Trump is a slippery criminal. He’s a showman and a salesman who knows how to get his point across without using specifics that can be applied against him. Of course his statements on January 6 were understood by everybody in his audience, but any good lawyer could make a case that none of his quotations taken alone say anything criminal. The case had to be constructed from implications, something courts hate to handle. I remain somewhat amazed that the cases were ever filed at all. Doing the unprecedented required courage. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/8 "2024-10-18T20:19:58Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I think Trump has benefitted by hesitancy on the part of officials who wanted to maintain the appearance of fairness. This is a wonderfully more compassionate and diplomatic way of expressing my thought than I would be able to. Merrick Garland is chickenshit. (ETA: Posted before I read the post above this one. Chickenshit is the word.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/9 "2024-10-18T20:29:37Z")
This sort of crime, especially for a very real political person, takes a LOOOOONG time to build up the evidence. There was no failure- I mean- look at the slam dunk in Florida with the documents case -sabotaged by a trump appointed judge. And even if he had been convicted- he could still run, I mean he was convicted of multiple felonies in New York and he is still running. Hell I have seen signs “I am voting for the Felon”. How would they stop him? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/10 "2024-10-18T20:45:13Z")
Garland’s legacy is written. It is spelled: “chickenshit”. That will be all I have to add; I’ll leave this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/11 "2024-10-18T20:50:58Z")
He’s a Republican and at least nominally wealthy; our society is dedicated to the principle that both classes of people deserve privilege and _must_ be pandered to. No matter the cost. A Democrat would have been treated differently - impeached with support from his own party probably - and a non-wealthy person would have been thrown in prison decades ago. One of the very few true things Trump has said is that he could get away with just shooting somebody. He’s got an R next to his name and money, he could do it on camera and walk, with the talking heads explaining to everyone how it was a reasonable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/12 "2024-10-18T21:12:07Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > It’s become standard that prosecutors, especially at the federal level, need years to put together all the witnesses, research, and best legal approaches to cases. I’m sure this is true, but … look at how much faster things started to move once Jack Smith was appointed. If Biden and Garland had appointed him or someone like him in February 2021 instead of waiting until late 2022, I think there’s a good chance Trump would have been convicted by now on the Jan. 6 crimes. And maybe that conviction would have been enough for states to disqualify him from the ballot as an insurrectionist. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/13 "2024-10-18T21:31:23Z")
Merrick Garland is a gutless coward. He’s a pussy, a dithering milquetoast with a backbone made out of jell-O and candy floss. I wish it was more complicated than that but it really isn’t. To be honest, it’s probably a good thing he didn’t get on the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/14 "2024-10-18T21:32:37Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Garland’s legacy is written. It is spelled: “chickenshit”. > That will be all I have to add; I’ll leave this thread. A man who got his job as a “sorry” for McConnell breaking all norms and then failed miserably at doing it. Now, on some of these cases, it was going to take a while before there really was something that could be indicted. I don’t think the documents case would have even happened if he had at least returned them the second time or so he was asked. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/15 "2024-10-18T23:13:09Z")
The multiple requests for documents and the multiple searches dragged out over a year. Trump has decades of experience in being recalcitrant. Noncooperation, evasion, and denial is his m.o. He managed to turn a clear violation of multiple laws into confusion by complicating the searches. Skirting laws not only saves him; it must give him as much pleasures as the cheering crowds at his rallies. He always wins. Taking him down is like poking at a mammoth with a spear. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/16 "2024-10-18T23:14:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > In addition, prosecutions of complex matters take much longer than outsiders realize. It’s become standard that prosecutors, especially at the federal level, need years to put together all the witnesses, research, and best legal approaches to cases. Yeah, I’m pretty sure this is the answer. While 3 1/2 years sounds like a long time, for complex legal matters it isn’t. And this is about as complex as it gets, even when it seems blatantly obvious that the guy is a major threat, as well as openly and unapologetically guilty as sin. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2024, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/17 "2024-10-18T23:17:38Z")
What was Garland supposed to do different? Go in without all the evidence? Well, no matter the evidence, Cannon wasnt going to let her patron get convicted. Election Interference? Scotus ruled trump immune in some cases- which has sidelined that trial for quite some time. So, there is really nothing Garland could have done, all that faster or better. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/18 "2024-10-19T00:19:37Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, there is really nothing Garland could have done, all that faster or better. Well, according to Wikipedia, the wheels of justice are certainly capable of turning a bit faster: > By the second anniversary of the attack, nearly 1,000 people had been federally charged. By August 2024, more than 1,400 people have been charged with federal crimes related to the attack and over 900 of them have been convicted. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/19 "2024-10-19T00:47:45Z")
Was Trump seen with a stick or other weapon at Congress, assaulting police officers on video ? No? Well then, that’s not a fair comparison. It’s easy to go after rioters caught on video. It’s a lot harder going after someone who makes a speech (1st Amendment!) and then goes back to his office to watch it on tv. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944/20 "2024-10-19T02:56:07Z")
Another example of real world complications. > **[Judge in Trump election case orders prosecutors to look for, produce info...](https://apnews.com/article/trump-january-6-case-mike-pence-06d6b9a2fb550a297b2ea332861e783a)** > > The federal judge overseeing the election interference case against Donald Trump has directed prosecutors to search for and provide to the former president’s lawyers any Justice Department information related to a separate investigation into Mike... The range of documents is limited but it still means delay from a side issue that nonlawyers would think of. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-justice-department-fail-to-protect-us-from-trump/1008944.md?page=2)