# Why did the MSM fall for the Jussi Smollett hoax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 19, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832 "2019-02-19T15:26:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/61 "2019-02-19T18:34:52Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You mean like Trump, every day? I’m in an agreeable mood, so sure. Like Trump. Please media types and virtue signaling celebrities who hope to leverage their “wokeness” into a few more dollars, don’t be like like Trump. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/62 "2019-02-19T18:36:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What is it when they put him on _Good Morning America_? It’s celebrity news: the news media is filled with stuff which is only covered because it has to do with “celebrities”. You don’t come across titles of articles about the Kardashians and think to yourself the media should not waste space on this garbage? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/63 "2019-02-19T18:38:22Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > To the leftists’s credit on this board at least you all didn’t fall for the hoax. I was admittedly surprised. > > I am not surprised you think it’s possible to nonsensify perfectly useful terms used to describe the lunacy of the left. “Virtue signaling” is a nothing criticism. Advocates for public policy are generally, by definition, advocating for policies they think will make the world (or their country, state, or locality) a better place. Unless you’re a mind-reader, there’s no possible way to know if someone is genuinely advocating for good policy or trying to tell everyone around them about how awesome they are (or both!). Applying it to whatever happens to be the latest story about liberals (or purported liberals) who you think made a mistake in something is, at best, the height of laziness. At worst, it’s just another handy tool to try to denigrate even the possibility of rationally discussing the ideas of liberalism/progressivism. In short, I’m sure there’s reasonable criticism of how some segments of the media handled the Smollett story. Spouting buzz-phrases like “virtue signalling” isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/64 "2019-02-19T18:38:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why did they fall for the hoax? They wanted another opportunity to virtue signal. You are the third or fourth poster to chime in to say why the MSM fell for a hoax without determining whether they fell for any hoax. Posters in this thread have asked multiple times now – can you provide an MSM article that actually fell for it? Or, another article written at the time of Smollett’s apparently false story that didn’t fall for it? Maybe the hoax is that the MSM fell for a hoax. Why did you fall for that? There’s no evidence in the OP that the MSM fell for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/65 "2019-02-19T18:43:13Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The next question is why do people defend media types and celebrities who tweet before they think? That’s a much better question. But again, we must ask first if something has happened before we ask why it happened. Has there been a lot of people defending media and celebrities who tweet before they think? I would agree media types and celebrities do this, but I’m not sure they get defended much (beyond defending their “right” to do so under the first amendment) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/66 "2019-02-19T18:43:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “Virtue signaling” is a nothing criticism. Advocates for public policy are generally, by definition, advocating for policies they think will make the world (or their country, state, or locality) a better place. Unless you’re a mind-reader, there’s no possible way to know if someone is genuinely advocating for good policy or trying to tell everyone around them about how awesome they are (or both!). Applying it to whatever happens to be the latest story about liberals (or purported liberals) who you think made a mistake in something is, at best, the height of laziness. At worst, it’s just another handy tool to try to denigrate even the possibility of rationally discussing the ideas of liberalism/progressivism. > > In short, I’m sure there’s reasonable criticism of how some segments of the media handled the Smollett story. “Virtue signalling” isn’t one of them. It absolutely is virtue signaling. It’s a cheap way for people to demonstrate wokeness and show they belong to a certain ideological tribe. That’s all it is. Mind reading has nothing to do with it. Or it has as much to do with this as all the intention and motivation ascribing that occurs here that is directed at conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/67 "2019-02-19T18:44:11Z")
CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, CNBC, The Washington Post, The New York Times etc. are available for examples of the “MSM” falling for some kind of hoax…but the example given is of an interview on _Good Morning America_ that doesn’t really show any support for the story given. Pathetic. Got anything better? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/68 "2019-02-19T18:47:47Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > That’s a much better question. But again, we must ask first if something has happened before we ask why it happened. > > Has there been a lot of people defending media and celebrities who tweet before they think? I would agree media types and celebrities do this, but I’m not sure they get defended much (beyond defending their “right” to do so under the first amendment) Did the media get hoaxed? Who is the media? Of course the media should report news. It’s when the entertainment and editorial portions of media, IMO that’s the majority of the media, opines without knowing the facts that real harm is done. I, for one, am thrilled whenever they are embarrassed. I don’t think embarrassment or being wrong will ever change this nasty behavior though because it’s economically disadvantageous to be slow and right compared to being fast and wrong. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/69 "2019-02-19T18:51:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It absolutely is virtue signaling. It’s a cheap way for people to demonstrate wokeness and show they belong to a certain ideological tribe. That describes following Fox’s lead and jumping, like a pack of hyenas, onto a negative assertion about the lamestream media without actually checking to see if it’s factual. Except for the “wokeness” part; that crack is describable as simply denigrating awareness of the world rather than trying to join in it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/70 "2019-02-19T18:52:29Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Did the media get hoaxed? Who is the media? Of course the media should report news. It’s when the entertainment and editorial portions of media, IMO that’s the majority of the media, opines without knowing the facts that real harm is done. I, for one, am thrilled whenever they are embarrassed. > > I don’t think embarrassment or being wrong will ever change this nasty behavior though because it’s economically disadvantageous to be slow and right compared to being fast and wrong. More vagueness. Got any specific examples? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/71 "2019-02-19T18:54:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It absolutely is virtue signaling. It’s a cheap way for people to demonstrate wokeness and show they belong to a certain ideological tribe. That’s all it is. Mind reading has nothing to do with it. Or it has as much to do with this as all the intention and motivation ascribing that occurs here that is directed at conservatives. What is the “it” you’re referring to? And by your last sentence, you seem to be admitting that your criticism is baseless (yes, “intention and motivation ascribing” is largely as baseless as assertions of mind-reading when applied to any large, nebulous group, no matter the ideology). Though I’m still unclear on what you’re actually criticizing. AFAICT, broadly speaking, the media reported on the Smollett incident factually. They reported what he said, what the police said, and now the latest findings of the police. Which part was “virtue signaling”? ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/72 "2019-02-19T18:58:24Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Do you consider [thinkprogress.org](http://thinkprogress.org) to be the MSM? If not, this seems very off-topic. Not sure. It seems within the realm of possibility major networks could run with something from them. Wikipedia: > [@](#): > > ThinkProgress is an American news website. It is a project of the Center for American Progress Action Fund (CAP Action), a progressive public policy research and advocacy organization. Judd Legum, founded ThinkProgress in 2005. The site’s reports have been discussed by mainstream news outlets and peer-reviewed academic journals. What I’m wondering is if the media reporting was mostly okay, what is the disconnect with those prominent Democrats who tweeted that this was an attack that happened rather than an attack being investigated. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/73 "2019-02-19T19:08:35Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > What I’m wondering is if the media reporting was mostly okay, what is the disconnect with those prominent Democrats who tweeted that this was an attack that happened rather than an attack being investigated. There is no “disconnect” because the attachment is artificial in a thread about the supposed “MSM” supposedly falling for some hoax. The fact that no actual “MSM” can be shown to have fallen for this hoax isn’t a signal to widen the net until you find some _non_-“MSM” source that supposedly did fall for it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/74 "2019-02-19T19:11:34Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > What I’m wondering is if the media reporting was mostly okay, what is the disconnect with those prominent Democrats who tweeted that this was an attack that happened rather than an attack being investigated. Just like happened with those terrorist attacks in Sweden and Bowling Green. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/75 "2019-02-19T19:19:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why did they fall for the hoax? They wanted another opportunity to virtue signal. Maybe the fact that his injuries were severe enough to require an overnight hospital stay made his story believable. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/76 "2019-02-19T19:25:51Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Why did they fall for the hoax? They wanted another opportunity to virtue signal. Same question as for **WF** - show me an example of a contemporaneous story that you would say handled the story the way you think they should have. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/77 "2019-02-19T19:31:28Z")
I’ll hazard a guess that anyone who holds a negative view of the media after this story broke already had a negative view of the media. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/78 "2019-02-19T19:41:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll hazard a guess that anyone who holds a negative view of the media after this story broke already had a negative view of the media. Yet all the complaints boil down to “they shouldn’t report the news.” B-List actor claims racist assault in downtown Chicago is news, by any definition. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/79 "2019-02-19T19:53:48Z")
To the OP: Do you have any examples whatsoever to support this thread’s premise? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832/80 "2019-02-19T20:31:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Except for the “wokeness” part; that crack is describable as simply denigrating awareness of the world rather than trying to join in it. For what it’s worth I am pretty sure I have heard some crunchy liberals describe themselves as woke. It makes me shudder because it holds all the self-righteousness of Veganism without any of the effort. And I am typically on their side. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-msm-fall-for-the-jussi-smollett-hoax/829832.md?page=5)