# Why did the Patriarchs live so long? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046 "2006-05-17T00:21:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/1 "2006-05-17T00:21:50Z")
Below is a link to a website that graphes the ages of the Patriarchs in the Bible (I link only for the graph, not their reasons). Why were the lifespans of the Patriarchs so much longer? Is it supposed to say something about them? It seems that modern creationists want to talk about how this relates to the oozone layer or genetics. But these would not be things that the writers of the Bible had knowledge about - assuming they were just men. So what were they trying to say about the Patriarchs? [http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/longpatr.html](http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/longpatr.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/2 "2006-05-17T00:51:43Z")
Dunno, but it is sometimes suggested that the ages are expressed in months, mislabelled as years. Trouble is, that doesn’t work because the list contains not only their ages at death, but the ages at which they sired children; dividing the age at death might give you more realistic ages, but dividing the ages at fatherhood by twelve makes some of them very much still in short trousers when they got it on. And if you divide the ages at death by twelve and leave the ages at fatherhood alone, then some of them became parents quite some time after their death; nice work if you can get it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/3 "2006-05-17T01:31:32Z")
I tried to find a error, but instead uncovered an amusing potential fact. Methuselah is the longest-lived of the patriarchs, as 969 years (Gen 5:27). At the age of 187, he fathered Lamech (Gen 5:25) who at the age of 182 fathered Noah (Gen 5:28), when Methuselah was 369. When Noah was 600, the flood came (Gen 7:6), killing all life on Earth except that in the ark. So Methuselah, who’d lived to be 969, may have died a few months before the flood or he may have died _in_ the flood, which suggests he might have lived to be even older, but for the wrath of God. I’d thought originally the numbers might suggest Methuselah lived past the flood, but no big deal. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/4 "2006-05-17T01:56:52Z")
Remember that even the earliest possible date for when Genesis was first written down would have been centuries or millenia after the dates all this supposedly happened. At least as long before as the span between today and when King Arthur supposedly lived. **Legends** , in other words Assuming you don’t believe that Genesis is literally true, then the “reason” why enormous longevity is attributed to the Patriarchs is along the general lines of “back in the mystic times of old, magic and wonders were commonplace”. Sumerian mythology, which is believed to be at least partly the source of the myths inherited by the Hebrews, routinely attributed vast lifetimes to the god-kings who supposedly ruled the world back then. (A lot of ancient myth reads like comic books without the graphics). Either that, or you could make an extremely effective youth potion from manticore liver. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/5 "2006-05-17T09:47:37Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I tried to find a error, but instead uncovered an amusing potential fact. Methuselah is the longest-lived of the patriarchs, as 969 years (Gen 5:27). At the age of 187, he fathered Lamech (Gen 5:25) who at the age of 182 fathered Noah (Gen 5:28), when Methuselah was 369. When Noah was 600, the flood came (Gen 7:6), killing all life on Earth except that in the ark. So Methuselah, who’d lived to be 969, may have died a few months before the flood or he may have died _in_ the flood, which suggests he might have lived to be even older, but for the wrath of God. > > I’d thought originally the numbers might suggest Methuselah lived past the flood, but no big deal. Some Bible teachers note that “Methuselah” can be translated as “When he dies, so be it”, thus implying that his death would herald some great event. To address the OP, I’ve heard theories about the atmosphere of the pre-Flood world being more conducive to health and longevity (such as that the atmosphere had a water canopy which filtered out harmful radiation). However, it occurred to me that only these people are mentioned as living so long, so perhaps it was only those mentioned in the Genesis 5 & 11 geneologies who reached such advanced age as a mixed blessing (Sure, you live centuries, but you also see many of your loved ones, including descendants, age and die). ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/6 "2006-05-17T10:25:49Z")
I think the usual historical explanation is that the authors of the Bible were trying to fill in rather long timespans with a comparatively small number of known names in traditional genealogies. So the lifespans of the individuals got pretty long. The same phenomenon appears to an even higher degree in the cuneiform lists of ancient kings of Mesopotamia. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/7 "2006-05-17T21:22:17Z")
[porgy & bess] Methusaleh lived 900 years Methusaleh lived 900 years But why call that livin’ When no gal will give in To no man what’s 900 years? [/p&b] ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/8 "2006-05-17T21:56:42Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > Why were the lifespans of the Patriarchs so much longer? Because it is fiction, a myth. This is not meant to be snarky, it’s the only sincere and rational answer. The 900 year old is a myth - we have no compelling reason to believe otherwise, or at least no reason more compelling than the reason we have to believe that Zeus lived on Olympus and Arthur pluckled excaliber from a stone. The better question is, why do you believe the patriarchs lived so long? ---
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/9 "2006-05-17T22:19:54Z")
> [@whole bean](#): > > Because it is fiction, a myth. This is not meant to be snarky, it’s the only sincere and rational answer. The 900 year old is a myth - we have no compelling reason to believe otherwise, or at least no reason more compelling than the reason we have to believe that Zeus lived on Olympus and Arthur pluckled excaliber from a stone. The better question is, why do you believe the patriarchs lived so long? I don’t know why they lived so long. Even assuming it is a totally fictional myth, the question is why did the writers make them live so long. The idea that they were trying to relate the amount of time to the known generations make sense. Looking the Torah it does seem that these ages come from the R text and R was using the Book of Generations as a framework. In fact, I can’t find any Patriarch’s age in any part of the Torah other than R. Does anyone know if R added the ages to the Book of Generations or if the ages were already there? At the time of the redaction was the age of the Earth a known thing? ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/10 "2006-05-17T22:25:14Z")
Maybe they were Zombies? More seriously, many ancient legendary figures have their longevity exagerated. [Sumerian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumerian_king_list) [China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_August_Ones_and_Five_Emperors) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/11 "2006-05-17T22:28:23Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > At the time of the redaction was the age of the Earth a known thing? No, it was not. [Bishop Ussher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Ussher) did not publish until 1650 C.E. ---
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/12 "2006-05-17T22:48:01Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No, it was not. [Bishop Ussher](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Ussher) did not publish until 1650 C.E. I am sure why that has anything to with whether ancient Jews had a tradition of the known age of the Earth. The current Jewish claendar dates back to Hillel II (C.E. 359). I am not sure if this calendar had years at that time (I think it did) or if there was a prior calendar that had years. But the Jewish clendar did have a year date (that goes back to creation) before the Ussher-Lightfoot Calendar. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/13 "2006-05-17T22:53:37Z")
> [@Jebus H. Christ](#): > > I am sure why that has anything to with whether ancient Jews had a tradition of the known age of the Earth. Next time I’ll put a [joke] tag around my post. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/14 "2006-05-18T21:33:40Z")
Because they were more closely related to the immediate (and perfect) creations of Adam and Eve. One argument I’ve heard is that inbreeding was not so problematic for A&E’s offspring because there were no harmful mutations that would be concentrated. We today are tainted through generations bad living that we are lucky to see 1/10th the lifespan of our perfectly engineered counterparts. Either that or the wriers were simply doing what ancient historians did best: exaggerating in order to magnify the greatness of our predecessors relative to ourselves so we hold our past in awe and reverence, and strive for a greatness we are supposed to have once known. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/15 "2006-05-18T21:47:11Z")
It was a mythological convention in imitation of the Sumerian Kings List. They were not real people anyway. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/16 "2006-05-18T22:28:14Z")
The question of reality or myth doesn’t really enter into it. At some point, an author or editor deliberately used those ages, and we can ask why from a literary perspective without regard to any underlying reality. From that perpsective, one generalization is that the ages tend to decrease. The more ancient patriarchs live longer than the more recent ones, down to Joseph living for 100 years (I’m doing this from memory, I don’t have a bible handy), Moses for 120, and Joshua for 100. Thus, Joseph and Joshua bracket Moses who is regarded as exceptional, having lived to 120 and not be diminished in strength. And then you have “magic” numbers: 120 = 40 x 3, and 40 is an oft-recurring number in the bible (signifying generational change) and 3 is an oft-recurring number, so the product had symbolic significance to the author(s)/editors/readers way back when, lost to us now. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/17 "2006-05-18T22:33:02Z")
OK, I also note that: Abraham lives to be 175 = 5[sup]2[/sup] x 7 Isaac lives to be 180 = 6[sup]2[/sup] x 5 Jacob lives to be 147 = 7[sup]2[/sup] x 3 So there’s some sort of pattern. What does it mean? No one today knows. ---
**Author:** ![Jebus\_H.Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Jebus\_H.Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jebus_H.Christ)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/18 "2006-05-18T22:37:24Z")
C K Dexter Haven, I noticed you wrote some staff reports on the writing of the Bible. Do you know if the redactor added the ages to the Book of Generations? Was there a known age of the Earth or date of creation that the redactor had to deal with when using the Book of Generations to give structure to Torah if he added the ages? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/19 "2006-05-19T03:22:33Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > Maybe they were Zombies? Gospel According to John, Chapter 20: > [@](#): > > 24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. > 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe. > 26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. > 27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. > 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. > 29 Jesus saith unto him, **BBRRRRAAAAIIIIIIIHHHHNNNNZZZZ!** And there was much wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and spraying of bodily fluids. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046/20 "2006-05-19T03:36:15Z")
I was taught that, for the earliest patriarchs, it expressed how close to perfection they were. 1000 years would have been perfect, so Methuselah was the holiest of them. After the flood, they were given shorter lifespans to kind of ease us into the more modern, believable era. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-patriarchs-live-so-long/357046.md?page=2)