# Why did the Turkish culture and language not spread? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 2, 2023, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505 "2023-09-02T14:13:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/41 "2023-09-03T16:01:37Z")
I did not mean it was the dominant language of Switzerland, I meant the overwhelming majority of primary speakers was in that cluster of countries I rattled off. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/42 "2023-09-03T16:46:19Z")
> [@Die\_Capacitrix](#): > > Perhaps Turkey is (was?) stable enough that people just want to stay there. There are about 7 million (most current estimate) people of Turkish origin in Germany, about 8.5% of the population. Most of them are Turks and their offspring who came to Germany in the 60-80s as immigrant workers (Gastarbeiter) when there was a dearth of industry workers and the German government encouraged immigration (also from countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Yugoslavia and others) . Most of them stayed. > **[Turks in Germany](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_in_Germany)** > > Turks in Germany, also referred to as German Turks and Turkish Germans (German: Türken in Deutschland/Deutschtürken; Turkish: Almanya'da yaşayan Türkler/Almanya Türkleri), are ethnic Turkish people living in Germany. These terms are also used to refer to German-born individuals who are of full or partial Turkish ancestry. Whilst the majority of Turks arrived or originate from Turkey, there are also significant ethnic Turkish communities living in Germany who come from (or descend from) Southeas... ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/43 "2023-09-03T17:05:39Z")
There’s a wrinkle in the terminology of “First Language/Second Language”, which is why I prefer “Mother Tongue” over “First Language” - the _First_ Language may not be the _Principal_ Language for a speaker in a multi-ethnic colonial state i.e. the language that they speak the most, and use outside their immediate household. In Francophone Africa, I would say for many urbanites, French is the primary language even when it is not the first language (although it is increasingly that, too). The cities are such ethnic mixes that French is truly the _lingua franca_. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/44 "2023-09-03T17:16:56Z")
If we’re getting technical, there’s the additional wrinkle that it’s pretty common for people to have more than one mother tongue (language used in childhood with family), and often more than one native language (language learned to fluency as a child), all of which to my mind should count as L1. In a colonial situation, they can learn French in school and become an educated native speaker, even if it’s not the mother tongue; those people are probably L2 on the Wikipedia list but their skills in the language wouldn’t be very different from mother tongue French speakers, except perhaps in a few domains that education doesn’t cover. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/45 "2023-09-03T17:28:22Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > If we’re getting technical, there’s the additional wrinkle that it’s pretty common for people to have more than one mother tongue (language used in childhood with family), and often more than one native language (language learned to fluency as a child), all of which to my mind should count as L1. Yep. I count both English and Afrikaans as my L1 languages, even though both my parents only spoke English to me - an Afrikaans grandparent and primarily Afrikaans neighbours meant I was still speaking it from the get-go. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > In a colonial situation, they can learn French in school and become an educated native speaker, even if it’s not the mother tongue; those people are probably L2 on the Wikipedia list but their skills in the language wouldn’t be very different from mother tongue French speakers, except perhaps in a few domains that education doesn’t cover. Most non-Black South Africans my age and older can speak at least enough Afrikaans to be “native” in any case, because it was required at school, and because television was in Afrikaans only, for 3 days out of 7. My kids are not, even though it’s still a school requirement, it’s now very superficially taught, and media immersion isn’t a thing anymore. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2023, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/46 "2023-09-03T17:56:18Z")
Interesting. I wonder if Afrikaans will dwindle even further if schooling in it is no longer heavily pushed. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/47 "2023-09-04T14:08:42Z")
Even with it not being as forcefully pushed by the government, it’s still a popular second-language choice for English-home-language students, because it’s seen as easier than Nguni languages like Zulu and Xhosa. It’s dwindling a bit in overall national culture without government propping it up. But there is still _significant_ media representation in the language - in print and broadcast media. It’s like Welsh or French Canadian, to a large extent. It’s not dwindling as an L1 language, though, in fact a bit of the opposite - the Afrikaans population is bucking overall demographic trends, and growing. It’s the home language of 1/8 of the population, and [mostly in the most economically advantaged part of the country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaans-speaking_population_of_South_Africa#/media/File:South_Africa_2011_Afrikaans_speakers_proportion_map.svg) - that’s not going to change significantly for the foreseeable future. What will change is the ratio of White to Non-White Afrikaners. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/48 "2023-09-04T19:10:42Z")
Thanks! Very informative and interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Jagraze1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jagraze1/32/14870_2.png) [@Jagraze1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jagraze1)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/49 "2023-09-04T19:22:38Z")
Which language? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2023, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505/50 "2023-09-04T19:25:27Z")
Afrikaans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-turkish-culture-and-language-not-spread/989505.md?page=2)