# Why did the Vietnam US POW rumors stay alive so long? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 24, 2012, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888 "2012-02-24T22:51:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/21 "2012-02-25T20:54:09Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That last sentence carries an odor, a faint scent of rightish propaganda. There was no such “beginning”, opposition to the war did not extend to our soldiers. We didn’t blame them, we blamed the men who sent them. If you walked the crowd at an anti-war demonstration, you would have been hard pressed to find someone who didn’t personally know a Vietnam vet, or was related to one. > > Further, the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War had a major impact. You could see it on the faces of people watching. First time I saw it, I was marching next to a man wearing his right sleeve pinned up over the missing arm with a Purple Heart. From where I walked, you could see down the street at men shouting epithets at the marchers. Until he got there, and then they stared in gap-jawed silence. Hit like a ton of bricks, it did. > > So, no, we didn’t start coming around to respecting our veterans in the 90’s. We always did. We knew who to blame, and it wasn’t them. Returning veterans were the best allies the anti-war movement had, may the Goddess bless them and keep them close to Her warm and bountiful bosom all the days of their lives, amen. I’m not a veteran but I was around back in the seventies. And my recollection doesn’t match yours. I can certainly recall plenty of hostility being directed at the soldiers who fought in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/22 "2012-02-25T20:54:42Z")
Does it just re-validate who the Injuns were this go around? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/23 "2012-02-25T20:57:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Incidentally there are what…800,000 Vietnamese still missing? Never a peep about them. What exactly do you feel the American responsibility is to locate missing Vietnamese people who are presumably somewhere in Vietnam? ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/24 "2012-02-25T21:02:14Z")
“In Vietnam” in the sense the fertilizer they inadvertantly became is in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/25 "2012-02-25T21:09:13Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There were earlier rumors of American POW’s being held by North Korea or China after the Korean War. That was different, they had a [use](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchurian_Candidate) for those! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/26 "2012-02-25T21:29:11Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > That last sentence carries an odor, a faint scent of rightish propaganda. There was no such “beginning”, opposition to the war did not extend to our soldiers. We didn’t blame them, we blamed the men who sent them. If you walked the crowd at an anti-war demonstration, you would have been hard pressed to find someone who didn’t personally know a Vietnam vet, or was related to one. > > Further, the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War had a major impact. You could see it on the faces of people watching. First time I saw it, I was marching next to a man wearing his right sleeve pinned up over the missing arm with a Purple Heart. From where I walked, you could see down the street at men shouting epithets at the marchers. Until he got there, and then they stared in gap-jawed silence. Hit like a ton of bricks, it did. > > So, no, we didn’t start coming around to respecting our veterans in the 90’s. We always did. We knew who to blame, and it wasn’t them. Returning veterans were the best allies the anti-war movement had, may the Goddess bless them and keep them close to Her warm and bountiful bosom all the days of their lives, amen. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not a veteran but I was around back in the seventies. And my recollection doesn’t match yours. I can certainly recall plenty of hostility being directed at the soldiers who fought in Vietnam. My Dad, his next brother and my Grandfather on my mother’s side all served in Vietnam, with my Dad doing two tours. **Elucidator** , I am sure that there were many enlightened types in the anti-war movement that acted like you say, that is, with respect towards the soldiers themselves because they realized where the blame really belonged (government), but I can assure you that from talking to them and others that served there that there was most certainly an anti-soldier component of the protests, and it wasn’t a small number of people either. That’s why **Martin Hyde** said what he did in his post…a lot of our soldiers that were sent over to fight in that ridiculous waste of time, lives and money were shunned, spat upon and cursed by the very people they supposedly represented. In this regard I think **Martin** is correct: the Vietnam war movies that came out in the 1980’s and 1990’s certainly helped the general public “get inside the head” of the common Vietnam vet/soldier and get at least a quasi-realistic taste of what fighting in that war was really like, which engendered a lot of sympathy amongst the general public. Coincide that with an uptick in the quality and care from organizations like the VA during that time and I think **Martin** has a point about the respect quotient for Vietnam vets increasing during that time (and remaining through today). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/27 "2012-02-25T21:31:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not a veteran but I was around back in the seventies. And my recollection doesn’t match yours. I can certainly recall plenty of hostility being directed at the soldiers who fought in Vietnam. Did you actually _see_ any? Or did somebody tell you? And does it make sense, given the number of people involved, that we would hate our drafted friends and relations? Myself, a couple of cousins (one drafted, one volunteer) and about half a dozen friends of varying closeness. And that was nothing special. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/28 "2012-02-25T21:33:39Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > …spat upon… Oh, Christ Jesus, not that again! ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/29 "2012-02-25T21:35:54Z")
I think a lot of the rumors were civilian only. As a PFC in the early 70’s, I wore a copper MIA bracelet - until a light Colonel in my class looked at it and said “Oh him, he’s dead”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/30 "2012-02-25T21:51:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Did you actually _see_ any? Or did somebody tell you? Were you personally at every protest? Or did somebody tell you about them? I’m not arguing about your personal experience but for the overall situation, I’m guessing both of us are relying on mostly second-hand information. I know Jerry Lempcke says that nobody ever spit on a soldier. But a lot of soldiers have said they were spit on. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/31 "2012-02-25T22:20:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not a veteran but I was around back in the seventies. And my recollection doesn’t match yours. I can certainly recall plenty of hostility being directed at the soldiers who fought in Vietnam. I also have never seen the hostility toward soldiers that is alleged. That doesn’t mean it didn’t exist. But at anti-war rallies there were soldiers and former soldiers participating and they were treated as VIPs. There was hostility to the military in general, and soldiers who were hostile to anti-war activists would probably receive hostility in return. But to this day veterans of that war will claim they were ‘spit on’ when they returned home, even though no verifiable incident has ever been uncovered. I can understand that they felt that the country figuratively spit on them when they came home, which IMHO we did. But the claims of hostility directed at particular soldiers seem to be highly overstated. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/32 "2012-02-25T22:22:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There were earlier rumors of American POW’s being held by North Korea or China after the Korean War. A lot of this probably was due to POWs [refusing repatriation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_and_British_defectors_in_the_Korean_War) and electing to remain in China. It was bizarre to imagine it was voluntary and this led to the idea that they were being brainwashed, The Manchurian Candidate, etc. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/33 "2012-02-25T22:26:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, Christ Jesus, not that again! Choose to believe whatever you want. I am not repeating a meme. My relations that served were or are all intelligent, well-educated officers in our nation’s military. My Dad and all my uncles are West Point educated. My Dad would not make this up. In fact, he doesn’t really like to talk about anything specific from that time at all. None of them do. It wasn’t just the war **elucidator**. Many were not treated well in the aftermath upon their return to the US. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/34 "2012-02-25T22:31:16Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Many were not treated well in the aftermath upon their return to the US. Not treated well by who though? By the government and society in general yes. But the idea of hostility directed at individual members of the military (short of the top decision making positions) is still suspect. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/35 "2012-02-25T22:47:46Z")
Think about it. Put on your rationalist thinking cap, then one you use when you are likely to confront a truth you ain’t gonna like. How? It was always airports, wasn’t it? So, squads of lefties team up to hang around airports, waiting for a likely suspect? Gotta be guys in uniform, right? How many times would that happen before one of them got the living shit kicked out of him? Where did you hear, which news outlet featured the story? Because somehow, some miraculous way, all those stories vanished, no longer in the archives. Or show me one. What, didn’t make the news, ignored? “Filthy anti-war hippy gets torn a new asshole at local airport after spitting on returning vet!” Why, because the liberal media loved us so much, is that why an exhaustive Nexis search will get you diddly-squat? Lots of people changed their minds over the years and owned up to some pretty heinous shit, William Ayers and Bernadette Dorne, just for a couple. How come nobody confessed to taking part in so widespread a phenomenon? Not only did no one I knew do such a thing, nobody I knew ever suggested it, nobody would fucking _dare_! Returning vets were the best thing ever happened to us! Nothing so thoroughly shattered the great wall of lies that was Viet Nam than they did. Repeat, just in case you missed it: returning vets were the best thing that ever happened to the anti-war movement. Hands down, bar none. The story makes no sense, but if you want to insist on believing it, so be it. But do me one favor, next time you repeat it here, bring evidence. Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/36 "2012-02-25T23:06:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Where did you hear, which news outlet featured the story? Because somehow, some miraculous way, all those stories vanished, no longer in the archives. Or show me one. [CBS Evening News for Monday, Dec 27, 1971](http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=214568) > [@](#): > > Summary: > (Studio) January, 1971, report on medics in Vietnam recalled; retd. medic featured. > REPORTER: Charles Collingwood > > (Manhattan, Kansas) Delmar Pickett, Junior, hero, returns from Vietnam, finds US indifferent to war; vets’ unemployment high; returns to school at Kansas State University as better student than before Vietnam experience. [Student Gwyn STEERE - speaks of Pickett’s modesty.] [Vietnam film from earlier feature shown.] Pickett home is in Olsburg, Kansas. [PICKETT - tells of being spit on in Seattle, WA.] ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/37 "2012-02-25T23:11:54Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Think about it. Put on your rationalist thinking cap, then one you use when you are likely to confront a truth you ain’t gonna like. Thanks, I usually prefer to put on the one with the truth-destroying death ray. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/38 "2012-02-25T23:13:20Z")
**Dissonance** Did you do any follow up? Like Googling Pickett? > **[Vietnam vet Delmar Pickett Jr. describes a 1971 airport spit incident.](https://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/press_box/2007/03/picketts_charge.2.html)** > > Were veterans spat upon as they returned from serving in Vietnam? When Holy Cross College scholar Jerry Lembcke studied the allegations for his 1998 bo ... He says he beat the shit out of the guy. And wasn’t arrested? The guy wasn’t arrested? A story like that, didn’t make the news? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/39 "2012-02-25T23:14:38Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Where did you hear, which news outlet featured the story? Because somehow, some miraculous way, all those stories vanished, no longer in the archives. Or show me one. > [@Dissonance](#): > > [CBS Evening News for > Monday, Dec 27, 1971](http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=214568) This is not a question about the words being said. I can point you to veterans now who will claim they were ‘spit on’, even though they’ve admitted to me no such thing happened. It is a repititive chant among Vietnam vets. I think it expresses their feeling of being figuratively spit on by the US government and society who wanted to sweep the whole matter under the rug and forget about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888/40 "2012-02-25T23:18:41Z")
Which is a disgrace, no question about it. But an entirely different subject. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vietnam-us-pow-rumors-stay-alive-so-long/613888.md?page=3)