# Why did the VW CEO Step Down? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 23, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312 "2015-09-23T15:54:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/61 "2015-09-25T16:19:13Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Well, when you phrase it like that… > > My problem is that the resignation is an empty gesture. The CEO resigns with a huge golden parachute and lives on a beach somewhere with no real repercussions while someone else picks up the pieces. Does the company at least get to sue him for malfeasance? You got it. I guess he could be criminally charged if he directly ordered this, but I think that’s unlikely. That’s why CEOs get the big bucks, because of their personal responsibility and willingness to accept the consequences. Oh, wait. (If my company would pay me even a paltry million to resign after I screw up, I’d start planning to screw up today.) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/62 "2015-09-25T16:21:28Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Again, we know our vehicles, and I guarantee the VW guys know theirs. Whatever the technical details of this case I also guarantee that it wasn’t a few rogue engineers that programmed a nifty feature, this was known about right to the top. I haven’t worked for car companies, but I’ve worked for plenty of big companies, and this is absolutely correct. No grunt engineer is going to risk anything to make more money for the big wigs. And with any decent process no grunt engineer could get away with it. I have two questions - how high did knowledge go, and who was stupid enough to think they’d get away with it. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/63 "2015-09-25T16:22:27Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > Mechanics will go do their thing, techline will do their thing, and eventually word will spread about the link between the sensor and the strange fact that the vehicle runs differently when the hood sensor fails. And yet word never did spread. I know a guy that has been a VW technician for 30 years and he’s as in the dark as we are. That’s why I don’t think too many people knew about it (depending on the definition of “too many”). Maybe every diesel engineer at VW HQ knew, but dealers and service departments didn’t. Do we know how the engines ran with the emissions system operating? Fuel efficiency isn’t something that can be reliably detected by the driver, especially over a short period. Performance can be subjective too. If the defeat device was tied to something important like the steering angle sensor, people wouldn’t be driving around much if the sensor failed. It might even be tied to a sensor that tripped “limp mode.” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/64 "2015-09-25T16:30:12Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I wonder how their competitors didn’t notice this and squeal. > > I mean, with the kind of performance WW claimed, without the additives other diesel engines use, surely their competition would be all over those engines to figure out what they were doing? well, everyone does benchmark testing, but at least in North America nobody but VW was keen on selling diesel cars. So maybe no other automaker bothered. Besides, their test facilities are probably busy enough running testing on their own cars. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/65 "2015-09-25T18:58:38Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > And yet word never did spread. I know a guy that has been a VW technician for 30 years and he’s as in the dark as we are. That’s why I don’t think too many people knew about it (depending on the definition of “too many”). Maybe every diesel engineer at VW HQ knew, but dealers and service departments didn’t. You would be surprised what info trickles down, I agree that not everybody would know but there certainly would be a lot of technicians out there spotting some strange fault codes pointing to some strange areas and word would get around. As an aside, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if a guy 30 years in the trade wouldn’t know about it. I know a lot of guys with that time served, and a lot of them trained in a different era and still haven’t gotten their heads around the new computer age. I’m not saying that’s your friend, but it is a common thing. 🙂 > [@](#): > > Fuel efficiency isn’t something that can be reliably detected by the driver, especially over a short period. On the contrary, I’m not a VW guy but I did happen to roadtest a 2014 VW Golf last weekend and the current trip MPG was displayed on the dash. It may or may not be accurate, but it is very visible and so the driver is likely to notice if it starts changing. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2015, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/66 "2015-09-26T01:22:25Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > And yet word never did spread. I know a guy that has been a VW technician for 30 years and he’s as in the dark as we are. That’s why I don’t think too many people knew about it (depending on the definition of “too many”). Maybe every diesel engineer at VW HQ knew, but dealers and service departments didn’t. considering dealers are not part of Volkswagen, that’s hardly surprising. > [@](#): > > Do we know how the engines ran with the emissions system operating? Fuel efficiency isn’t something that can be reliably detected by the driver, especially over a short period. Performance can be subjective too. If the defeat device was tied to something important like the steering angle sensor, people wouldn’t be driving around much if the sensor failed. It might even be tied to a sensor that tripped “limp mode.” we’re just going to have to wait for the results of the investigation. there’s a shit-ton of speculation out there, and most of it is plausible. “wait and see” is pretty much all we can do. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/67 "2015-09-27T02:28:28Z")
The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/business/as-vw-pushed-to-be-no-1-ambitions-fueled-a-scandal.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) has an article directly linking the scandal to the now former CEO’s push to surpass Toyota as the world’s largest auto maker. > [@](#): > > To capture market share, Volkswagen, which also makes such brands as Audi and Porsche, would need to build the larger cars favored by Americans. But it would also need to comply with the Obama administration’s toughening standards on mileage. All automakers developed strategies to meet the new mileage rules, and diesel was a big part of Volkswagen’s plan. But diesel engines, while offering better mileage, also emit more smog-forming pollutants than conventional engines, so Volkswagen’s strategy ran head-on into American air pollution standards, which are stricter than those in Europe. > > Cheating on emissions tests solved several issues at once. Not only were drivers rewarded with better mileage and performance, but the automaker also avoided more expensive and cumbersome pollution-control systems. So yes, Winterkorn was clearly the driving force (no pun intended) behind situation which directly lead to the cheating. Clearly, he has responsibility for it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/68 "2015-09-27T05:58:38Z")
Getting back to the OP’s question, I would speculate that one reason the CEO quit was that he is now in a conflict of interest, between him and the company. If there’s a possibility that he’s going to face civil suits naming him personally, or even criminal charges, that would put a question mark over every action he would take on the file. "Is he doing X with the company in response to the scandal because it’s the best thing for the company? Or is he doing it to protect himself from criminal or civil liability? That kind of thinking may also be why they’ve promoted the Czech guy: because he was not involved in the shenanigans about the cheat device so is both honest and experienced at VW. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/69 "2015-09-27T11:36:46Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Getting back to the OP’s question, I would speculate that one reason the CEO quit was that he is now in a conflict of interest, between him and the company. > > If there’s a possibility that he’s going to face civil suits naming him personally, or even criminal charges, that would put a question mark over every action he would take on the file. > > "Is he doing X with the company in response to the scandal because it’s the best thing for the company? Or is he doing it to protect himself from criminal or civil liability? > > That kind of thinking may also be why they’ve promoted the Czech guy: because he was not involved in the shenanigans about the cheat device so is both honest and experienced at VW. Is it common in this type of situation to file a civil suit against the person of the company’s CEO? ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/70 "2015-09-28T01:02:03Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > On the contrary, I’m not a VW guy but I did happen to roadtest a 2014 VW Golf last weekend and the current trip MPG was displayed on the dash. It may or may not be accurate, but it is very visible and so the driver is likely to notice if it starts changing. My simple toyota also displays “spot” readings, and trip readings. And while I trust that both are pretty accurate for this car, for my driving, for this trip, neither are what I would call accurate on a “macro fuel efficiency” There are simply too many variables to say with any accuracy that the rating I am getting represents the overall fuel efficiency of the car. Things like ambient temperature, driving style, traffic, what else is in the car, fuel, highway / urban mix, altitude – All are going to play into the fuel efficiency, Meaning that what I get for MY car, is not really a fantastic way to tell if all of these cars as a group get a specific fuel efficiency rating ---
**Author:** ![Postariti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Postariti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Postariti)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/71 "2015-09-28T04:55:27Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > That article claims it could be as simple as a single line of code. There definitely wouldn’t need to be a custom engineered and developed sensors, modern cars know when they’re being driven. > > Some articles say it was done by detecting movement in the steering wheel, which would work, but I don’t think that’s been proven. According to the [EPA (PDF)](http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/documents/vw-nov-caa-09-18-15.pdf): “The ‘switch’ senses whether the vehicle is being tested or not based on various inputs including the position of the steering wheel, vehicle speed, the duration of the engine’s operation, and barometric pressure. These inputs precisely track the parameters of the federal test procedure…” (Bottom of page 3) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/72 "2015-09-28T06:30:58Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > My simple toyota also displays “spot” readings, and trip readings. > > And while I trust that both are pretty accurate for this car, for my driving, for this trip, neither are what I would call accurate on a “macro fuel efficiency” > > There are simply too many variables to say with any accuracy that the rating I am getting represents the overall fuel efficiency of the car. > > Things like ambient temperature, driving style, traffic, what else is in the car, fuel, highway / urban mix, altitude – > All are going to play into the fuel efficiency, > Meaning that what I get for MY car, is not really a fantastic way to tell if all of these cars as a group get a specific fuel efficiency rating The response was to a claim that driver could not tell fuel efficiency, not that the fuel efficiency of the entire fleet can’t be known - which it obviously can’t. A Times column from a very pissed off VW diesel owner said that a big reason he bought the car was that the instantaneous fuel efficiency was displayed. Now he finds his car is poisoning the atmosphere. And I can tell fuel efficiency for my Prius instantly, and over two trip meters, one of which I reset whenever I buy gas. I can tell the difference between winter and summer blends. Yeah, lots of factors influence it, but I know. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/73 "2015-09-28T07:27:22Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Slash the CEO compensation to $1/year and make him deal with the next five years of unrelenting hassles while VW attempts to ride this one out. That would be slavery. It didn’t work the first time. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/74 "2015-09-28T08:24:08Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > My simple toyota also displays “spot” readings, and trip readings. > > And while I trust that both are pretty accurate for this car, for my driving, for this trip, neither are what I would call accurate on a “macro fuel efficiency” But that wasn’t my point. I know the trip reading might not be 100% accurate, but what matters is that they are consistent, that they are using the same systems to judge the efficiency all the time. So if I am driving that Golf on my daily commute every day I’m probably going to be getting similar mpg readings displayed every day. Say its displayed as 10mpg, it might actually be less or more than 10mpg but thats what is displayed and that becomes the norm. Then the hood sensor fails and now the emissions software starts working, and on the same commute I have made hundreds of times the mpg displayed on the dash suddenly drops to 8mpg. The 8mpg might be as inaccurate as the 10mpg was before but that doesn’t matter, what matters is that there was a consistent figure that has now changed, and the driver knows that it has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/75 "2015-09-28T23:17:51Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > The [New York Times](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/business/as-vw-pushed-to-be-no-1-ambitions-fueled-a-scandal.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news) has an article directly linking the scandal to the now former CEO’s push to surpass Toyota as the world’s largest auto maker. > > So yes, Winterkorn was clearly the driving force (no pun intended) behind situation which directly lead to the cheating. Clearly, he has responsibility for it. That makes a lot of sense, because anybody who follows the auto industry knows that Winterkorn really wanted VW to be the #1 automaker, and worked for years toward this end. And unfortunately, that makes it hard to believe he wasn’t behind the cheating, or at the very least consciously tolerated it. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/76 "2015-09-29T01:01:18Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > Is it common in this type of situation to file a civil suit against the person of the company’s CEO? You have to appreciate that this is a potentially multi-jurisdictional lawsuit, with the twist that both European civil law and American common law principles may be in issue, so everything is very hypothetical at this point. However, the starting point in a complex matter: sue everyone who touched the file, or may have touched the file, to make sure you don’t miss someone or miss a limitation period. Then, as discovery goes on and the plaintiff learns more about the workings of the case, the plaintiff normally drops off people who have shown they did not have liability. As well, executives of a corporation (ie on the board) may have personal liability for decisions of the corporation, if they agreed to the decision. In some jurisdictions, an executive can avoid that liability if they formally objected to the decision, at the time the decision was made, but not retroactively. Also, immunity from liabilty can go out the window if the decision was criminal in nature. While a corporation normally indemnifies its executives for actions taken in good faith, intentional breaches of the criminal law normally invalidate that, and the corporation may be able to take action against its executives, if the corporation finds itself liable for the illegal acts of its executives. So, to summarise, no clear answer, but the possiblity of civil actions is certainly there. That gets back to my previous post: given that there is the possiblity of civil actions against the executives of VW in their personal capacity, from this point forward, are they making decisions in the best interests of the corporation, which is their fiduciary duty? or in their own best interests, to reduce their own possible liability. That’s why I raise the issue of the former CEO having been in a conflict of interest once the matter became known. (And if any executives of VW happen to be reading this post, this is not legal advice. Talk to a lawyer with experience in your jurisdiction.) ---
**Author:** ![Annoying\_Buzz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Annoying\_Buzz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annoying_Buzz)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/77 "2015-09-29T07:10:24Z")
Their suppliers knew about it and warned them on it. > **[Report: Bosch Warned VW About Diesel Emissions Cheating in 2007](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15351548/report-bosch-warned-vw-about-diesel-emissions-cheating-in-2007/)** > > German newspapers report that parts supplier Bosch had a hunch that VW was using tampered software to cheat on emissions tests all the way back in 2007. Read more at Car and Driver. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/78 "2015-09-29T12:06:32Z")
Former Chrysler CEO and GM Vice Chair Bob Lutz has been interviewed and said he can’t see how VW can afford to fix all the cars AND cover penalties, etc. He is assuming that VW will need to work with the German government to both make good on any fixes and penalties and remain operating. > **[What Volkswagen Can Learn from GM and Chrysler | The Takeaway | WNYC](https://www.wnyc.org/story/what-volkswagen-can-learn-gm-and-chrysler/)** > > To get out of the emissions scandal, Volkswagen will need a strong leader, says Bob Lutz, former vice chairman of General Motors and former president of Chrysler. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/79 "2015-09-29T12:53:00Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Former Chrysler CEO and GM Vice Chair Bob Lutz has been interviewed and said he can’t see how VW can afford to fix all the cars AND cover penalties, etc. He is assuming that VW will need to work with the German government to both make good on any fixes and penalties and remain operating. > > [What Volkswagen Can Learn from GM and Chrysler | The Takeaway | WNYC](http://www.thetakeaway.org/story/what-volkswagen-can-learn-gm-and-chrysler/) Bob Lutz spent his entire career in the auto industry. I’m inclined to give a lot of weight to his opinion on something like this. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312/80 "2015-09-29T15:47:37Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Bob Lutz spent his entire career in the auto industry. I’m inclined to give a lot of weight to his opinion on something like this. Exactly. I have been keeping an eye out for further discussion of this aspect of the situation, now that Lutz framed it that way. - What is the expected costs associated with fixing/addressing the existing cars? - What are the costs associated with criminal and civil suits and penalties internationally - Based on those amounts, what will VW’s needs be for capital to remain operating as those costs flow through their Income Statements, and how will owners like Lower Saxony in Germany help them through that period? If they are looking at one or more years of hits equaling tens of billions of Euros, it could be complex for a long time. I don’t see Germany allowing their crown jewel car company to go bust, but VW may need to be propped up for a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-did-the-vw-ceo-step-down/732312.md?page=5)